Traveller arrangement on small yacht (20ft Vivacity)

[MarcJ]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone could suggest a better shackle or attachment for the traveller. We noticed whilst tacking that the U shackle had a tendency to jam on the bar it's on. There is a bar across the transom that it attaches to - here's a photo, though it's not a great one...
View attachment 31079

I'm thinking one of the more rounded shackles would be better - but there may be a way of doing it I haven't thought of!

Marc

 

[Rigger Mortice]

A block with a nice fat sheave might move along that rail quite nicely, though it might foul the tiller.
I have a snatch block that would work beautifully. (No, you can't have it!)

Out of curiosity....does the traveller move freely? I can't see any lines to haul the boom upwind.

 

[MarcJ]

Yes the traveller moves freely, it's when it goes over at a certain angle the shackle twists/jams against the rail. I wish I'd taken a picture of it with the boom up! Here's a picture I took to make sure I put the rope back in the right way, as I'm replacing it!
View attachment 31082
The left block attaches to the rail...

 

[VicS]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone could suggest a better shackle or attachment for the traveller. We noticed whilst tacking that the U shackle had a tendency to jam on the bar it's on. There is a bar across the transom that it attaches to - here's a photo, though it's not a great one...
View attachment 31079

I'm thinking one of the more rounded shackles would be better - but there may be a way of doing it I haven't thought of!

Marc

I have an almost identical main sheet horse but mine has a slider on it. It does not jam but the bottom block is still liable to clout the tiller even though there is more clearance than you seem to have.

Best i can suggest is something made with a small roller under the bar that can be assembled around it. A large diameter sheave will almost certainly not have clearance above the tiller.

To big a job the lower the tiller I guess?

Mine visible extreme LHS but no help to you!

 

[MarcJ]

Aaahhh that's what I want! I take your point about clearing the tiller, it only occurred to me when looking at the pictures, we've virtually no clearance. I did wonder whether I could take the bar off to slide something on (though I'm not sure about the "stops" and if they are removable).
The other thing I noticed is that the bar noticably bends if I pull too hard...having an attachment that spreads the load would help with that too.

 

[VicS]

Aaahhh that's what I want! I take your point about clearing the tiller, it only occurred to me when looking at the pictures, we've virtually no clearance. I did wonder whether I could take the bar off to slide something on (though I'm not sure about the "stops" and if they are removable).
The other thing I noticed is that the bar noticably bends if I pull too hard...having an attachment that spreads the load would help with that too.

Just dawned on me. Simple way of increasing the clearance above the tiller might be to raise the horse on some wooden blocks if the threaded bit underneath is long enough.

(Not "just" dawned on me at all! Been think of doing it anyway!

Not going to prevent the bar bending I feel.

 

[MarcJ]

From what you're saying I must be able to take the "horse" (is that what it's called?) off altogether...mmmm wonder if those stops are removable. If so, that would give me more options. I'll be with the boat this Saturday, will have a look then..

 

[dunedin]

Methinks this is a very clumsy and inefficient system - as it will be impossible to get the mainsail sheeted in near the centre-line
Take a look at a Laser dinghy and copy that - ie replace the heavy bar with a strong rope. Set loose the rope makes an inverted V shape and the block stays near the centre, which is good upwind. Tighten the rope and the block moves to the lee side.
Cheap, simple and more effective

 

[MarcJ]

Methinks this is a very clumsy and inefficient system - as it will be impossible to get the mainsail sheeted in near the centre-line
Take a look at a Laser dinghy and copy that - ie replace the heavy bar with a strong rope. Set loose the rope makes an inverted V shape and the block stays near the centre, which is good upwind. Tighten the rope and the block moves to the lee side.
Cheap, simple and more effective

That would be easy to try out too, and no bending of the horse!

 

[Sailingsaves]

Cheap and simple solution that I used many years ago on a very similar system, was just to tie two knots (or bends?) tightly either side of the shackle = something like a few rolling hitches. All I can say was it was cheap, quick to do, gripped, and worked = could haul the boom to windward when I wanted and it stayed there.

 

[VicS]

Methinks this is a very clumsy and inefficient system - as it will be impossible to get the mainsail sheeted in near the centre-line
Take a look at a Laser dinghy and copy that - ie replace the heavy bar with a strong rope. Set loose the rope makes an inverted V shape and the block stays near the centre, which is good upwind. Tighten the rope and the block moves to the lee side.
Cheap, simple and more effective

It is a simple basic system adequate of little bilge keelers that are not exactly ****-hot racing machines.


The sheeting position can be adjusted with a line attached to the shackle if one feels so inclined.

 

[MarcJ]

Thanks for all the replies! I'm not sure I was very clear in my first post - main sheet moves fine on the horse normally, the problem is that it is prone to snagging if the shackle twists on itself. The rope idea will be useful to try - though I wonder if the shackle will move as freely when under light winds...

 

[VicS]

Thanks for all the replies! I'm not sure I was very clear in my first post - main sheet moves fine on the horse normally, the problem is that it is prone to snagging if the shackle twists on itself. The rope idea will be useful to try - though I wonder if the shackle will move as freely when under light winds...

Is there a swivel on the mainsheet block or is it trying to twist the shackle?

 

[MarcJ]

Yes there is...
View attachment 31111

 

[DennisF]

Methinks this is a very clumsy and inefficient system - as it will be impossible to get the mainsail sheeted in near the centre-line
Take a look at a Laser dinghy and copy that - ie replace the heavy bar with a strong rope. Set loose the rope makes an inverted V shape and the block stays near the centre, which is good upwind. Tighten the rope and the block moves to the lee side.
Cheap, simple and more effective

I have a rope system like this on my Vivacity 650, to replace a bar similar to the original poster's. It was done by a previous owner to enable a bigger outboard to be fitted and I can confirm the rope system works just fine!

 

[Fantasie 19]

Methinks this is a very clumsy and inefficient system - as it will be impossible to get the mainsail sheeted in near the centre-line

Not so... as the OP alluded when you're close hauled up wind there's so much tension/friction on the shackle you can move it to any position you like on the horse and it will stay there - I quite often used to come onto the wind, tighten everything down, and then just reach over and slide it (with a little effort) to a better position on the horse.... and it would stay there.....

 

[PeteCooper]

I have a length of track and a car which I could sell? It would probably bolt along the top of your existing arrangement giving more resistance to bending and would run smoothly. If you want more details please pm me.

 

[Bru]

The Islander 23 (as in Brigantia) is the Vivacity 20's bigger sister and has the same mainsheet arrangement. We have a carbine hook rather than a shackle which won't twist and jam, can be quickly detached from the horse (we stow the mainsheet below decks when the boat is not in use to make the nice roller bearing blocks last longer!) and can be hooked over the end stops to hold the sheet to windward when close hauled*

* This, we found out the hard way, makes as much as 5 degrees or more difference to how high we can point. It'll do for now but I'd like to improve the setup and replacing the horse with a track and car setup is a potential long term project

 

[Fantasie 19]

The Islander 23 (as in Brigantia) is the Vivacity 20's bigger sister and has the same mainsheet arrangement. We have a carbine hook rather than a shackle which won't twist and jam, can be quickly detached from the horse (we stow the mainsheet below decks when the boat is not in use to make the nice roller bearing blocks last longer!) and can be hooked over the end stops to hold the sheet to windward when close hauled*

* This, we found out the hard way, makes as much as 5 degrees or more difference to how high we can point. It'll do for now but I'd like to improve the setup and replacing the horse with a track and car setup is a potential long term project

I do exactly the same - it also turns your boom into a very handy crane should you need it.....

 

[Bru]

I do exactly the same - it also turns your boom into a vert handy crane should you need it.....

It certainly does and last year we made up a fixed length of line with eyes either end that drop over the stern cleats and a carbine hook at the mid-point that clips onto the boom bail. This stops the boom from swinging too far outboard and allows the mainsheet tackle to be used as a crane. It's now a key (and tested) feature of our MoB recovery plan