Transitting Firing Practice Ranges rules

[LadyInBed]

I was happily sailing out of the Tay - close to the coast to commune with the seals and stay out of the flood - and bloke in cammo came strolling down the beach and told me to get away from the shore and in to the channel

I assume he didn't have an American accent.
They call them SEALS we have the SBS

 

[Blue Drifter]

On the south coast (Weymouth area) I once anxiously watched a RN helicopter approach me and a crewman hold up a '67' sign. Wandering if I had transgressed an unknown to me, local rule, I chopped to Channel 67 where a very polite operator informed me that HMS Cumberland was firing torpedo(s) in the area and they would be grateful if I would alter course (they gave me a bearing) for 6 miles before continuing on my current course. All very professional and definitely sounded like a request. We didn't catch sight of HMS Cumberland or fortunately, any torpedoes!

 

[jac]

On the south coast (Weymouth area) I once anxiously watched a RN helicopter approach me and a crewman hold up a '67' sign. Wandering if I had transgressed an unknown to me, local rule, I chopped to Channel 67 where a very polite operator informed me that HMS Cumberland was firing torpedo(s) in the area and they would be grateful if I would alter course (they gave me a bearing) for 6 miles before continuing on my current course. All very professional and definitely sounded like a request. We didn't catch sight of HMS Cumberland or fortunately, any torpedoes!

I think that most people are very pleased to help if requested but that the forces ( and AFAIK they usually do) need to act as though they are asking for a favour.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Ah, those were the days... ancient Canberra towing a drogue....

 

[Dockhead]

I have to say that some of the comments do not reflect my experience in transiting the Lulworth Range. I have always found range control and the safety boats to be extremely polite and helpful, they will usually give a line of latitude for you to stay south of, and a point abeam of which you can resume your own navigation. This usually greatly decreases the extra distance and inconvenience and, in my view, is a small price to pay if it aids our armed forces.

I imagine that it depends on your attitude.

I would never dream of challenging their requests or orders or whatever they are. They are working and we are out having fun, after all. This is simple courtesy IMHO.

If you talk to the range boats, they will tell you how to transit without interfering with firing practice. Very often it does not require a massive detour. They will give you waypoints around the active part of the range. Just do what they tell you, or ask you, as you should, and they are impeccably polite in my (fairly lengthy) experience.

 

[jac]

I imagine that it depends on your attitude.

I would never dream of challenging their requests or orders or whatever they are. They are working and we are out having fun, after all. This is simple courtesy IMHO.

If you talk to the range boats, they will tell you how to transit without interfering with firing practice. Very often it does not require a massive detour. They will give you waypoints around the active part of the range. Just do what they tell you, or ask you, as you should, and they are impeccably polite in my (fairly lengthy) experience.

I think the key point here is the courtesy aspect of it.

We are doing the range users a courtesy by not insisting on our rights of navigation. If range boats forget that and start acting like little hitlers then why should we show any courtesy to someone who is wrong and rude.

 

[prv]

On the south coast (Weymouth area) I once anxiously watched a RN helicopter approach me and a crewman hold up a '67' sign. Wandering if I had transgressed an unknown to me, local rule, I chopped to Channel 67 where a very polite operator informed me that HMS Cumberland was firing torpedo(s) in the area and they would be grateful if I would alter course (they gave me a bearing) for 6 miles before continuing on my current course. All very professional and definitely sounded like a request. We didn't catch sight of HMS Cumberland or fortunately, any torpedoes!

I've been asked to move from the outer part of Studland Bay before, by a Marine in a RIB. He asked, not ordered, so of course I was happy to do so. Shortly afterwards, a Hercules flew over and parachuted two more RIBs into the water, followed by their crews. All very impressive and fun to watch.

Pete

 

[pmagowan]

A friend of mine was transiting a range with some of my family on board. Over the VHF was issued the instructions 'would the small white yacht please exit the firing range'. He ignored it on the basis that he thought his yacht was not small (being 45 foot). A jet flew over not long after, and very low, and my sister got a nice wave and wing wiggle by the pilot. He later dropped a bomb on the floating target which was exciting but not too close for comfort. The skipper decided it was time to scarper.

 

[Robin]

I think the key point here is the courtesy aspect of it.

We are doing the range users a courtesy by not insisting on our rights of navigation. If range boats forget that and start acting like little hitlers then why should we show any courtesy to someone who is wrong and rude.

WE were once being courteous and going out as requested even though firing should by then have been over for the day according to published schedules, only to find once we had diverted a mile or two south as requested, they announced the range was now closed and boats could freely transit. Lulworth range boats could be fairly intimidating at times.

Funniest we had was off Plymouth when passing through a range under spinnaker at a good speed 6-8kts, we passed a floating target as we heard incoming, but it was actually 'overgoing' to a target fartheroffshore, but cheek puckering nonetheless.

On another occasion a warship was flashing a signal light to a navy helo when the Paris Concorde ( remember that) broke the sound barrier outbound in the Channel with it's usual boom boom. A dutch yacht near to us was immediately heard on the VHF asking the warship if they (dutch yacht) were being shot at and apologising profusely that they didn't understand the morse signalling.

 

[pmagowan]

LOL, I like the idea of the Dutch frantically trying to decifer the morse. 'Darling id zeems deh ar firing ad uz, pleaze shtopp'.

 

[Robin]

LOL, I like the idea of the Dutch frantically trying to decifer the morse. 'Darling id zeems deh ar firing ad uz, pleaze shtopp'.

Oh Schidt!

 

[Seajet]

I have often told people trying to be ' little Hitlers ', if you ASK me for something I'll stand on my head to help you; if you TELL me to do it, it ain't going to happen in a million years !

 

[jac]

I have often told people trying to be ' little Hitlers ', if you ASK me for something I'll stand on my head to help you; if you TELL me to do it, it ain't going to happen in a million years !

Please - can you get a photo of you standing on your head and post it on this thread?

 

[pmagowan]

Please - can you get a photo of you standing on your head and post it on this thread?

 

[Bru]

It is interesting (to me at least) that the range safety boat "Sentinel", upon the occasion of my inadvertently straying slightly South of the range boundary at Foulness whilst beating into the Crouch, very courteously asked if I could please stay in the buoyed channel

Given that, per my earlier, they do actually have the right to order vessels to burger orf, that's an interesting contrast to attitudes elsewhere as reported

 

[yachtorion]

I think of this one in a similar manner to fisherman... they're doing a job I'm having fun. The range safety vessel Gallavidian near Kirkcudbright was very patient, pleasant and helpful when I passed the range when leaving harbour... told them where I was going, they asked if I could go a mile further south first, I called on the VHF when I got there, they looked on the radar, told me I was clear, I turned for my destination. No worries.

 

[Dockhead]

I think the key point here is the courtesy aspect of it.

We are doing the range users a courtesy by not insisting on our rights of navigation. If range boats forget that and start acting like little hitlers then why should we show any courtesy to someone who is wrong and rude.

Because "insisting on your rights" is something you should never do at sea, whether it's a collision avoidance situation, or something like this. If they want you to go around, go around, however politely or rudely the request or order or whatever it is is delivered. Why argue? What's the point? Most likely there is an extremely good reason for the request, and if there is not any good reason for it, you will not be able to determine that in any case, so why create aggravation? Is a few miles of extra sailing such a terrible thing? I rather like sailing, myself.

 

[Robin]

Because "insisting on your rights" is something you should never do at sea, whether it's a collision avoidance situation, or something like this. If they want you to go around, go around, however politely or rudely the request or order or whatever it is is delivered. Why argue? What's the point? Most likely there is an extremely good reason for the request, and if there is not any good reason for it, you will not be able to determine that in any case, so why create aggravation? Is a few miles of extra sailing such a terrible thing? I rather like sailing, myself.

OF course some people sail smaller and slower boats and although a half lifetime ago, I can recall being asked to go farther out to sea in the Lulworth range area, when that meant bashing and crashing upwind in a 21 foot bilge keeler to do so, with small children on board at the time, whereas in later years in larger and faster boats it would have been far less hassle.

 

[prv]

Because "insisting on your rights" is something you should never do at sea, whether it's a collision avoidance situation, or something like this. If they want you to go around, go around

Does this apply only at sea, or on land as well? I can't see anything in your argument that's specifically maritime. Yet if we remove "at sea" from the above, we get the scarily Orwellian:

" 'insisting on your rights' is something you should never do. If they want you to go around, go around"

Pete

 

[Bru]

Because "insisting on your rights" is something you should never do ....

I beg to differ. Insisting on your rights is something you should do, unless a very good reason is apparent for not doing so, otherwise they will in time cease to be your rights

If people hadn't insisted on their rights over the years we'd have no canal system to speak of, custody without trial, trial without juries (OK, that one has been bent and buggered somewhat I grant) and so on

If the "powers that be" wanted to remove the right to transit firing ranges they only have to amend the relevant byelaws using due legal process. Range safety boats attempting to enforce non-existent exclusion zones is not acceptable

Of course, being a reasonable sort of bloke if they called me up and asked me if it would be possible for me to go around I would be happy to oblige unless circumstances dictated otherwise.