Transat Jaques Vabre

[dunedin]

A record breaking fleet of 95 boats due to set off on this race later today, Sunday 29th Oct. An incredible fleet of racers.

However, it is looking like it will be another very tough race once they reach the West of the Channel and Bay of Biscay - bashing upwind into up to 8m waves if they can’t escape West fast enough. So the pressure will be on to go fast into rough conditions, to avoid being caught in even worse. So might be a lot of carnage.

The Open 40s aren’t fast enough to escape before the worst arrives, so it has been decided to break their race into two legs, with a stopover in Lorient to let the worst pass.

One to watch.

 

[dunedin]

And more change, as the weather forecast worsens - potential of up to 80 knots and 10m waves !!

Now the Ocean 50 class will, like the 40s, stop in Lorient. And the Open 60s will not start but stay in Le Havre - as there is no staging port able to take their fleet size. The IMOCAs fleet will remain in Le Havre

 

[capnsensible]

Fascinating to see the big multis already nearing Cherbourg at nearly 30 knots!

 

[dunedin]

Impressive start of the 44 strong fleet of Class 40 monohulls. The scow bow boats going at amazing pace.

As seems to be the case with this class however, they seem to have some chaos in close quarters. Incredibly the leading boat Pirelli, with nobody nearby to put them under pressure, went too close and hit the first turning mark. And didn’t seem to take any penalty (seemed confusion amongst commentators as to whether rules required a re-round or other penalty).
And tacking seemed to be an issue with boats losing steerage. Another drifted sideways into the mark.
And one boat tacked onto starboard then rode up and through the mainsail of another boat - race over for the latter? Will be interesting to see the adjudication - was it a port starboard, or did the boat tack onto starboard too close?

 

[John_Silver]

Tide runs pretty hard, along the line of the coast, between Le Havre / Honfleur and Cap d'Antifer. Suspect it was setting onto that mark.

 

[dunedin]

Tide runs pretty hard, along the line of the coast, between Le Havre / Honfleur and Cap d'Anifer. Suspect it was setting onto that mark.

These pro racers would have learnt about tides when they were sailing in Optimists. And most know the coast and the tides very well from doing the Figaro circuit. So a bit of a mystery why Pirelli hit the mark.
Unfortunately 2 boat collisions at the mark with 3 boats out already# including the local Le Havre favourite. Sad after all the preparation. I wonder if they could truck a boat to Lorient to restart there?

# Correction, one, possibly two, of the boats that returned look to have restarted - but another new heading back to Le Havre

 

[flaming]

These pro racers would have learnt about tides when they were sailing in Optimists. And most know the coast and the tides very well from doing the Figaro circuit. So a bit of a mystery why Pirelli hit the mark.

Not really a mystery. Driving it from below…
That mark looked horrendous. There were a number of pretty sketchy incidents. I saw a couple of incidences where boats were a little high on the approach and put the bow down to head for the mark and simply jumped forward. That then looked like they were arriving into potential overlap situations that they were simply not expecting.

 

[dunedin]

Not really a mystery. Driving it from below…
That mark looked horrendous. There were a number of pretty sketchy incidents. I saw a couple of incidences where boats were a little high on the approach and put the bow down to head for the mark and simply jumped forward. That then looked like they were arriving into potential overlap situations that they were simply not expecting.

Yes, very tricky for the mid fleet. But Pirelli had a clear lead and plenty of space, so bizarre why didn’t leave a safe distance from the buoy.
The incredible Ultims are powering west - the leader already West of Ushant by 21:00 GMT

 

[flaming]

Yes, very tricky for the mid fleet. But Pirelli had a clear lead and plenty of space, so bizarre why didn’t leave a safe distance from the buoy.
The incredible Ultims are powering west - the leader already West of Ushant by 21:00 GMT

Have you ever sat at the helm position of a class 40?

Awesome place to sit and drive offshore, but when approaching a mark in 30 knots, 2m waves and lots of tide..... I can understand the misjudgement.

Don't forget how ultra competitive that fleet is, giving up unnecessary distance at a mark could have been crucial. Especially given the fact that the fleet was arriving at the buoy doing speeds in the teens, and leaving doing speeds about 7 knots. Throw in how difficult tacking in those conditions was and it would be easy to round first but a boatlength or 2 wide, and then find yourself unable to tack and cross the next boat who got a better rounding.

 

[doris]

Have you ever sat at the helm position of a class 40?

Awesome place to sit and drive offshore, but when approaching a mark in 30 knots, 2m waves and lots of tide..... I can understand the misjudgement.

Don't forget how ultra competitive that fleet is, giving up unnecessary distance at a mark could have been crucial. Especially given the fact that the fleet was arriving at the buoy doing speeds in the teens, and leaving doing speeds about 7 knots. Throw in how difficult tacking in those conditions was and it would be easy to round first but a boatlength or 2 wide, and then find yourself unable to tack and cross the next boat who got a better rounding.

I agree with all that but, this a 4K miles race, these sailors are supposed to be the best, collisions due to over enthusiastic machismo and bumping the mark are not a good look for all the sponsors and Joe Public looking on.
I would be mortified if I had been a skipper and v v p*ssed off if I was a sponsor.
And yes I have done more than my share of short handed offshore, sometimes on a Whitbread 30 which had all those complications. Hopefully most of them get to continue, albeit a tad chastened and with some work to do.

 

[flaming]

I agree with all that but, this a 4K miles race, these sailors are supposed to be the best, collisions due to over enthusiastic machismo and bumping the mark are not a good look for all the sponsors and Joe Public looking on.
I would be mortified if I had been a skipper and v v p*ssed off if I was a sponsor.
And yes I have done more than my share of short handed offshore, sometimes on a Whitbread 30 which had all those complications. Hopefully most of them get to continue, albeit a tad chastened and with some work to do.

One correction, it's not a 4k race they were starting, it;s a circa 36 hour sprint to Lorient.

However I agree it's a terrible look.

But the way I see it, making boats configured for long offshore, especially those with very protected cockpits, do busy mark roundings, especially short handed is frankly asking for trouble. We saw this with the IMOCAs in the Ocean race with a simple port starboard in light winds.

You have boats designed for the cut and thrust of mark roundings, and you have boats designed to cross oceans. Don't make either do the other. It isn't clever....

Give shorthanded Ocean racers a nice big start line, and then let them spread out.

 

[Mudisox]

Start line length, and first leg of any race should always be set with a views and abilities of the clients, in any race.

But who is the client? Sponsors, owners, helms or even the media?

And maybe even adjusted from those set in the NOR/SIs for the conditions at the time.

 

[dunedin]

Have you ever sat at the helm position of a class 40?

Awesome place to sit and drive offshore, but when approaching a mark in 30 knots, 2m waves and lots of tide..... I can understand the misjudgement.

Don't forget how ultra competitive that fleet is, giving up unnecessary distance at a mark could have been crucial. Especially given the fact that the fleet was arriving at the buoy doing speeds in the teens, and leaving doing speeds about 7 knots. Throw in how difficult tacking in those conditions was and it would be easy to round first but a boatlength or 2 wide, and then find yourself unable to tack and cross the next boat who got a better rounding.

Did you watch the video of Pirelli’s rounding. Yes sometimes can be very tricky, and certainly was for the rest of the fleet. But not for Pirelli who had loads of room, and wasn’t when tacking. If that poor visibility should have left a metre or so space. And if I recall, one of crew was outside the pod looking. But let’s move on.

Incredible speeds of the Ocean 50 tris. First boats already at Lorient. Le Havre to Lorient on a very tricky and tidal course, a lot upwind into waves …… in 20 hrs 44 minutes. Incredible. And 45 mins ahead of the next boat in a very competitive fleet.

 

[ds797]

What I'd like to know is why the IMOCAs were delayed but the 40s and Ultimes set sail??

Surely the IMOCAs are designed for ALL conditions around the world???

 

[John_Silver]

What I'd like to know is why the IMOCAs were delayed but the 40s and Ultimes set sail??

Surely the IMOCAs are designed for ALL conditions around the world???

ULTIM’s went because they are fast enough to get clear before the weather hits. The Class40’s and 50’ tris are doing a blast down to Lorient, before the weather hits. They will shelter in La Base. But there isn’t room for 39 (mostly) foil equipped IMOCA’s. So they’ve stayed put.

 

[doris]

One correction, it's not a 4k race they were starting, it;s a circa 36 hour sprint to Lorient.

One race with a pause. The times will be aggregated in Martinique.

 

[doris]

What I'd like to know is why the IMOCAs were delayed but the 40s and Ultimes set sail??

Surely the IMOCAs are designed for ALL conditions around the world???

With possible gusts of 100kts (view on the JV site) in the Biscay, to deliberately send the fleet off would have been insane, totally. Sea state would be unimaginable to us mere mortals, far worse than the Southern Ocean.

 

[flaming]

Did you watch the video of Pirelli’s rounding. Yes sometimes can be very tricky, and certainly was for the rest of the fleet. But not for Pirelli who had loads of room, and wasn’t when tacking. If that poor visibility should have left a metre or so space. And if I recall, one of crew was outside the pod looking. But let’s move on.

Incredible speeds of the Ocean 50 tris. First boats already at Lorient. Le Havre to Lorient on a very tricky and tidal course, a lot upwind into waves …… in 20 hrs 44 minutes. Incredible. And 45 mins ahead of the next boat in a very competitive fleet.

Yes, I was watching live. Obviously a mistake, but one that had as its route causes pushing a mark rounding hard in a boat that is not well suited to doing that.

 

[flaming]

What I'd like to know is why the IMOCAs were delayed but the 40s and Ultimes set sail??

Surely the IMOCAs are designed for ALL conditions around the world???

As others have said, the conditions they would have met on the exit of Biscay were more than just a bit rough. Which is exactly why only the Ultimes, who could confidently expect to be well clear before the weather arrives, have actually been sent on their original course. Both the 40s, and the 50 Tris, have gone to Lorient. But not enough room for the IMOCAs.

As Pip said in commentary, there is a huge difference between being prepared to meet, navigate around and survive in offshore storms and encountering the same weather at either the start or end of a passage where geography starts limiting your options. It would have been 50+ knots upwind. Nobody in their right mind sends the fleet into that.

 

[michael_w]

Swing wide then cut in close. Mark rounding basics! Whatever you do, don't hit the thing!

Surprised how slow they were tacking.