Trailed Logs: What to look for

[laika]

After over 3 years of ownership I still haven't sussed a reliable algorithm for correcting for the difference in behaviour of my through-hull log on each tack in different conditions. As I have ambitions of doing an ocean passage next year sans GPS I'm thinking about acquiring a walker (or similar) log but never having used one am slightly confused by what I should be looking for on ebay.

I believe that there are at least 2 sorts of mounting arrangement: Logs which attach to little metal base plates on each quarter (according to what tack you're on) and others which attach to a bridle (and therefore don't require the metal thingies). I understand that often the base plates ("shoes"?) are missing, but I recall that some folk here were looking into making up duplicates.

So what should I look for in a trailing log (for a 12m sailing boat) in order to avoid buying something missing essential mounting kit?

 

[Seajet]

I have a Wasp trail log; it has served me very well, but I and experienced crew have always suspected it over reads speed, and under reads distance.

It's mounted on the transom and sends thrumming vibrations throughout the boat, I find this a hypnotic way to go to sleep - and it tells me when something is wrong when the pace changes - but other people may find it a PITA !

For your proposed transat trip, FFS take a GPS, even if it's a simple job giving lat/long.

I have often wondered why decent trail logs are not available now; GPS and SOG is not the answer to all navigation.

PS I also have a Walker trail log from a ship, in its' wooden cabinet complete with spare spinners, oil etc; it may say something that I picked this up in a Pulborough antiques market !

 

[BrianH]

I believe that there are at least 2 sorts of mounting arrangement: Logs which attach to little metal base plates on each quarter (according to what tack you're on) and others which attach to a bridle (and therefore don't require the metal thingies). I understand that often the base plates ("shoes"?) are missing, but I recall that some folk here were looking into making up duplicates.
So what should I look for in a trailing log (for a 12m sailing boat) in order to avoid buying something missing essential mounting kit?

I used a Walker Excelsior Mk IV for many years, crossing the North Sea from the NE. I never used the base plate - I believe the port/starboard mounting was for ease of access and only one was fitted and used whatever tack one was on. I never mounted either but used the lanyard to lash to the lower pushpit bar. This enabled better orientation of the log unit in all planes in a seaway.

Alway remember to unhook the line from the log and stream it overboard when retrieving the spinner to enable the line to unwind the residual turns, then haul in from the spinner end and coil the line ... otherwise you get a terrible tangle.

 

[alahol2]

What you probably want is a Walker Knotmaster KDO, plastic body, plastic spinners. They used to come in a purpose made ply box with spare spinner, oil can, mounting plates or mounting bridle. I've carried one for donkey's years but only used it 2 or 3 times. They are surprisingly accurate.

PS Sharks are reputedly attracted to the spinners, hence the spare.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So what should I look for in a trailing log (for a 12m sailing boat) in order to avoid buying something missing essential mounting kit?

The Walker Knotmaster KDO (Knotmaster Distance Only) is probably the most common one around. It came in two versions. The standard one came in a wooden box with two spinners and sinkers, two mounting plates (port and starboard), a bottle of oil and a spare front glass. The economy version came in an expanded polystyrene "box" with one spinner/sinker/line, a mounting bridle and a bottle of oil.

Having used both, I think I prefer the bridle mounting, but it depends very much on the configuration at the back of your boat and whether you can mount it low down (deck level) or higher up (pushpit).

They come up on eBay regularly. Don't pay more than a hundred quid there for a boxed one, and get one with two spinners/sinkers if you possibly can. I haven't lost one let, but it's an ever present possibility. If it's a deck mounted one, make sure that the deck plate you need is there.

To stream the log, attach it to the head, stream out a loop until all the line is in the water and the spinner is on deck, then drop the spinner in, well clear of the loop. To recover, unclip the line from the head, then pull in and feed out simultaneously to end with the spinner in your hand and an untwisted line streaming behind, which you can then pull in.

 

[laika]

To assuage Seajet's concerns, I have multiple sources of GPS info but don't intend to switch them on except in an emergency. I did my YM Ocean theory 5 years ago but given I've waited so long for the "practical" I thought I'd do it "properly": Never submitted the sights I did on deliveries because I wasn't really using the sights for navigation (just for practice).

Distance only is indeed all I need (not speed). Would I be right in thinking from the above that I can just trail the thing from a bridle I make up myself (if one is missing from what I buy?). That was what I was understanding from the initial posts, but Jumbleduck's reply makes me think that the deck mounted one is physically different, can't be trailed from a bridle, and I'll be in trouble if I get one without mounting plates.

 

[Tranona]

I have an economy version - still in its polystyrene box! Hardly used as I bought just as electronic logs became affordable.

Don't understand why you are wanting to sail without a GPS unless you enjoy the uncertainty of never knowing exactly where you are. Although a trailing log is an interesting thing to have and makes a good talking point in the club bar it is of limited practical use. If you want to have one to keep you occupied clearing tangles and weed while your self steering or autopilot steers you to your destination, then the economy version with the bridle mount will do the job. If you want to emulate the pioneers get one with the two brackets - and don't forget to trim the wicks in the nav lights every day.

 

[cindersailor]

Being fed-up with de-weeding my through-hull log I now use a Stowe trailing log. This is internal battery powered with a spinner on a cable to throw overboard. Simple, reliable and as far as I can tell accurate. Only problem is that the batteries it uses (9 volt PP7) are very hard to find, but I simply rewired using a holder for 6 AAs. Periodically come up on e-bay and sell for not much money - £15 or so if you are lucky. You do have to put up with others' concern that you "have a rope trailing" though.

 

[laika]

Don't understand why you are wanting to sail without a GPS unless you enjoy the uncertainty of never knowing exactly where you are.

(a) Sticking to what I think is the spirit of the YM ocean qualifying passage (rather than one sun-run-sun with a sailing school) and (b) to see if I can actually hit a target over a thousand miles away using a sextant, tables, chronometer and log. Mostly (b) but seeing as 5 years of good health mean that I can apply to trade up my ML5 for an EN-1 I thought it might be nice to get another bit of paper that can be commercially endorsed.

Are you saying that the bridle mounted ones are not as accurate as the deck mounted ones?

It's only the nav which would be low tech. Not planning on replacing the ipod with an accordion..

 

[[10753]]

Being fed-up with de-weeding my through-hull log I now use a Stowe trailing log. This is internal battery powered with a spinner on a cable to throw overboard. Simple, reliable and as far as I can tell accurate. Only problem is that the batteries it uses (9 volt PP7) are very hard to find, but I simply rewired using a holder for 6 AAs. Periodically come up on e-bay and sell for not much money - £15 or so if you are lucky. You do have to put up with others' concern that you "have a rope trailing" though.

Stowe Trail Log - wonderful piece of kit. Never gone a weekend without someone shouting at me for trailing a rope. I say 'Its a Log' and I get some really weird looks but then again I get really weird looks whatever I'm doing !

 

[JumbleDuck]

Don't understand why you are wanting to sail without a GPS unless you enjoy the uncertainty of never knowing exactly where you are.

Maybe for the same reason that some strange people still like to make trips under sail, despite the uncertainty of never knowing exactly when you'll get there.

Trailing logs are great. Simple, reliable, immune to barnacles and easy to clear if they do pick up a bit of seaweed.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Are you saying that the bridle mounted ones are not as accurate as the deck mounted ones?

Having used both, I can't say I have noticed any difference. The deck mounted ones are easier to move from side to side when you tack, if you want to. I don't bother.

 

[VicS]

It woulg not be difficult to make some mounting plates for a Walker log if you find one without the plates.
No need for them to be dished like the originals. They could be flat but mounted on spacers.

Photos of the genuine ones below

Instructions for Knotmaster logs if of interest http://bluemoment.com/manuals/walker_knotmaster.pdf

 

[Tranona]

Are you saying that the bridle mounted ones are not as accurate as the deck mounted ones?

No. The head is the same. The thing about the plates on each quarter is that you use the leeward side as the line has a shorter run to the water and is arguably also easier to read. Don't think it has any effect on accuracy. The original Excelsior log had a bracket which kept the line clear of the side of the boat and allowed mounting alongside the cockpit - useful if you have yards of counter behind your cockpit. Again, needed to swap when tacking. My experience in coastal sailing was that it is a lot of faff, particularly handing it without getting tangles, picking up weed and worse getting in the way of mackerel lines! However for your use you are much more likely to be sailing free and flat so these issues are less important.

If I can remember where mine is I will dig it out if you want to see one and maybe try it before you buy.

 

[pvb]

I'm sure I'll be accused of being an ignorant heathen, but I can't understand this fascination with trailed logs. They're inconvenient and inaccurate, so why bother? The GPS will tell you very precisely how far you've travelled, which surely is the essence of what you want to know.

 

[neil_s]

Another vote for the Stowe trail log. The spinner is very light and runs along just under the surface of the water - this seems to help stop it picking up floating seaweed too.

 

[oldvarnish]

Don't understand why you are wanting to sail without a GPS unless you enjoy the uncertainty of never knowing exactly where you are.

Simple. It's because the pleasure and relief of a satisfactory landfall achieved by dead reckoning and compass fixes is worth a 1000 times what you get when the GPS tells you that you're there. If you've only ever navigated with GPS, you don't know the joy that you are missing.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The original Excelsior log had a bracket which kept the line clear of the side of the boat and allowed mounting alongside the cockpit - useful if you have yards of counter behind your cockpit.

So does the deck mounted Knotmaster. The head is mounted at the end of an arm which holds it about 6" outboard of the deck plate.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm sure I'll be accused of being an ignorant heathen, but I can't understand this fascination with trailed logs. They're inconvenient and inaccurate, so why bother? The GPS will tell you very precisely how far you've travelled, which surely is the essence of what you want to know.

They are extremely accurate and not really inconvenient, unless 30 seconds to stream or recover the line is an unbearable imposition. For those of us who like to conserve power and keep electronics switched off wherever possible they are extremely useful. And they are great fun to watch, particularly at night. The spinning log line is a most reassuring companion at 3am.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Simple. It's because the pleasure and relief of a satisfactory landfall achieved by dead reckoning and compass fixes is worth a 1000 times what you get when the GPS tells you that you're there. If you've only ever navigated with GPS, you don't know the joy that you are missing.

And how.