Towergate Insurance and single handing

[doug748]

birdseye,
............... I think it a fair enough limit, as that long especially in coastal / cross Channel waters is definitely long enough for anyone.

I humbly submit that longer passages than 18hours are routine in the wide bit of the channel, and doubtless when crossing the North Sea.

 

[basic]

On my request, my GJW insurance covers me for single handed sailing whatever the time of day, but my excess is doubled during the hours of darkness.

Same here.

 

[DipperToo]

On my request, my GJW insurance covers me for single handed sailing whatever the time of day, but my excess is doubled during the hours of darkness.

Bishop Skinner the same. They said; 'cover for single handed sailing is covered within your cruising range not exceeding 24 continuous hours, subject to the vessel being fitted with self steering gear'. Sailing area is what is termed Brest to Elbe.

 

[Seajet]

I humbly submit that longer passages than 18hours are routine in the wide bit of the channel, and doubtless when crossing the North Sea.

Yes, my longest to date is 40 hours when fog banks had me stuck in the TSS on a trip from Studland to Guernsey and I tacked to and fro before it cleared; no electronic aids apart from RDF in those days.

I've also done Binic to Plymouth, that was quite wide.

I was just saying that 18 hours is a reasonable limit to be singlehanding, as I always say fatigue is the no.1 enemy; however I am going to ensure - in writing - that I can exceed 18 hours in emergency, and what an emergency might consist of...

 

[Birdseye]

FWIW I have had a response from Towergate to my email querying the clause they added. The email reads as follows but beware - since they are a broker and use different underwriters for different people, it could well be that your policy with Towergate is different. So check your own position.

Further to your recent email I’ve removed the single handed clause that was added, as it wasn’t applicable and didn’t need to be added. I’ve spoken to my senior underwriter and he is happy for you to be sailing single handed during the day. I understand what you’re saying about the craft being able to cross the Atlantic. However its highly unlikely someone would attempt it on there own and would probably have 2/3 crew members. If they did attempt the crossing single handed then I don’t believe their insurance would be valid.



1. In regards to the definition of “night”. Our definition would be the generic definition of the word – “the period from sunset to sunrise in each twenty-four hours.” (darkness).



In regards to you being caught out. We understand that a lot can happen at sea, especially when it comes to the weather or other factors. Therefore if you can justify sailing at night on your own that would be fine. For example your engine breaks down and the light winds mean you don’t get back to the marina before sunset. In this case the situation is out of your hands and not a result of your actions, therefore there would be no issue in the event of a claim. Whereas if you left your marina just before sunset and then was sailing single handed after sunset, this would be a direct result of your actions. Therefore you wouldn’t be covered in an event of a claim.

This seems to me to be a sensible apporach except possibly for the issue of when night is.

 

[pvb]

This seems to me to be a sensible apporach except possibly for the issue of when night is.

It's a standard approach - see post #18.

 

[[3889]]

Yes I get a standard 18 from Y Yacht, and I can go over it in circumstances which might not reasonably have been foreseen when concocting a 17hr 59minute passage plan, and I will still be covered. I had to tease it out of them, they aren't keen on commiting themselves over the phone but we got there in the end..

That's a different story than they told me. I annually x-channel singlehanded from L'Aberwrach to Mousehole, which in the past has taken me between 16 and 19 hours. When I asked which, if any, of these passages I would be covered for the answer was a resounding "None". Policy wording is no SH cover for passages which may take >18 hours. I was also told that no cover would be in place for any part of the passage - not just the period at 18 hrs+. Their advice: cross via the CIs
Despite this I am still with Y as all alternative policies are at least as deficient in some aspect. I self-insure for this one passage.

 

[Seven Spades]

+1. Me too. Takes a £250 excess up to £500 in the event of a claim (single-handed) 'after the hours of daylight' - but the insurance cover remains in place.

Same here I and with GJW and I just spoke to them at the boat show and they amended the policy there and then.

 

[Birdseye]

Despite this I am still with Y as all alternative policies are at least as deficient in some aspect. I self-insure for this one passage.

Which is the issue of course. I am with Towergate because they give me club racing cover at a sensible cost

 

[sailorman]

but as in #5
i thought they were in financial problems

 

[Lucky Duck]

If you've only got it teased out over the phone, I'd be inclined to send them an email confirming your understanding of the conversation, or thay could deny saying it should you need it.

Very good point and I will, thanks

Even the I'd be concerned that the policy terms would prevail notwithstanding the email, best to have the policy wording altered.

The 'may take longer than 18 hours' clause was why I didn't take up their offer of insurance a year back, as pretty much every trip MAY take more than 18 hours.

 

[markhomer]

I followed John Tuckwell to Towergate as his company was swallowed up by them , John ran the marine side and a true gent , I always knew if anything happened I could rely on John , unfortunately he was made redundant just before christmas , this turn down in servicev , knowledge is most likely related , perhaps , unfortunately i had renewed before johns hand was taken off helm , i wouldnt have renewed if i had known what was to happen , came as a shock to John too !

 

[GrahamM376]

but as in #5
i thought they were in financial problems

Very large brokers and underwriters as well in some cases, marine only being one part of the business. They have been restructured but maybe the alleged financial problems have been blown out of proportion? I had protracted negotiations last year with Nigel Mills, their MD, regarding rewording of their marine policy wording and certainly no mention of problems, on the contrary he was very positive about their position.

I've always found their service good, policy meets all my needs and fast claims handling when we had one.

 

[Niffler]

There's only one way you can be singlehanding at night 'in an emergency', which is that all your other crew have fallen overboard, because there is no sensible emergency that would require you to set sail alone at night to solve the problem.

Can also be because you planned to be back in by 8pm but got caught out by wind and tide. Or you were safely anchored and the wind veered and you had to bug out.

 

[PeterR]

Bishop Skinner the same. They said; 'cover for single handed sailing is covered within your cruising range not exceeding 24 continuous hours, subject to the vessel being fitted with self steering gear'. Sailing area is what is termed Brest to Elbe.

That strange. My original quote from Bishop Skinner specified no single handed or night sailing. When I appealed and quoted my qualifications and experience they immediately changed it to single handed, including nightime, for a trip of no more than 36 hours provided the boat had self steering fitted. The premium didn't change but the excess went up when single handed at night.

I don't see that night in itself is an issue, its the time you have to stay awake that matters. After all if you are sailing in the high latitudes it never goes dark so you could argue you are never night sailing. Even around the North of Scotland at mid summer it never goes truly black at the hight of summer. I think 36 hours is a reasonable maximum. Twenty four hours has never caused me any concern. I have only gone over 36 hours once and I was definitely in danger of nodding off regardless of the situation by the time it started getting dark for the second time.

 

[DipperToo]

That strange. My original quote from Bishop Skinner specified no single handed or night sailing. When I appealed and quoted my qualifications and experience they immediately changed it to single handed, including nightime, for a trip of no more than 36 hours provided the boat had self steering fitted. The premium didn't change but the excess went up when single handed at night.

I don't see that night in itself is an issue, its the time you have to stay awake that matters. After all if you are sailing in the high latitudes it never goes dark so you could argue you are never night sailing. Even around the North of Scotland at mid summer it never goes truly black at the hight of summer. I think 36 hours is a reasonable maximum. Twenty four hours has never caused me any concern. I have only gone over 36 hours once and I was definitely in danger of nodding off regardless of the situation by the time it started getting dark for the second time.

To be fair, the original policy excluded night sailing as well. Speaking to others, it seems night sailing is generally excluded by most insurers unless specifically asked for.

 

[Matelot Joe]

Last year my insurance covered single handing but I could find no mention of it in this years renewal so I raised the question with them. The woman on the phone did not know the answer - indeed I got the impression that Towergate were going down the car insurance route with unqualified staff reading out prepared speeches ie did she know what single handing was. Maybe. Maybe not .

I'll have to talk to the underwriters she said and will get back to you. Which she did and when she told me that " It has been noted and agreed that the policy holder can single hand sail the craft at night only in emergency. He cannot does this normally due to the size of the craft."

I was in a hurry and never single hand anyway - I only asked for emergency cover and so I have renewed. But that still leaves me puzzled. How does the boat being 35ft affect single handing at night? And does this mean I am covered in daytime? When is night - is it darkness or clock that decides.

I suppose I shall have to go back to them and ask. Anyone had a similar experience?

I had the same gut reaction, in that i was dealing with people on the end of the phone that give me any confidence. I Moved !