Towergate Insurance and single handing

[Birdseye]

Last year my insurance covered single handing but I could find no mention of it in this years renewal so I raised the question with them. The woman on the phone did not know the answer - indeed I got the impression that Towergate were going down the car insurance route with unqualified staff reading out prepared speeches ie did she know what single handing was. Maybe. Maybe not .

I'll have to talk to the underwriters she said and will get back to you. Which she did and when she told me that " It has been noted and agreed that the policy holder can single hand sail the craft at night only in emergency. He cannot does this normally due to the size of the craft."

I was in a hurry and never single hand anyway - I only asked for emergency cover and so I have renewed. But that still leaves me puzzled. How does the boat being 35ft affect single handing at night? And does this mean I am covered in daytime? When is night - is it darkness or clock that decides.

I suppose I shall have to go back to them and ask. Anyone had a similar experience?

 

[jerrytug]

Hi birdseye, I would suggest emailing them (because it is then recorded) and getting it hammered out, sounds like an office worker who doesn't know the meanings of words as they apply at sea.

There are so many silly inconsistencies in these types of wording. Eg..my last insurance co wouldn't cover me at night, when S/H.

I asked, supposing I cross the N.Sea, involving a night at sea, at what time does cover end, then begin the next morning? Or is the cover for the whole crossing void, because I planned to be out at night?

It got a bit surreal, they just needed it all explaining to them really.

Now my new boat is with Y Yacht and they speak the lingo..

 

[[70521]]

Time to change if they are changing markets.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Last year my insurance covered single handing but I could find no mention of it in this years renewal so I raised the question with them. The woman on the phone did not know the answer - indeed I got the impression that Towergate were going down the car insurance route with unqualified staff reading out prepared speeches ie did she know what single handing was. Maybe. Maybe not .

I'll have to talk to the underwriters she said and will get back to you. Which she did and when she told me that " It has been noted and agreed that the policy holder can single hand sail the craft at night only in emergency. He cannot does this normally due to the size of the craft."

I was in a hurry and never single hand anyway - I only asked for emergency cover and so I have renewed. But that still leaves me puzzled. How does the boat being 35ft affect single handing at night? And does this mean I am covered in daytime? When is night - is it darkness or clock that decides.

I suppose I shall have to go back to them and ask. Anyone had a similar experience?

Hi Birdseye

I sail single handed almost 99% of the time all year round , I am with GJW who say that I am covered to sail single handed in 'daylight hours', but not for 'night sailing', thats fine for me as other than a couple of months daylight hours can be up to 10pm for a most of the time up on the North east coast.

 

[sailorman]

I thought that Towergate were going down the tubes. i would check them out before parting with your hard earned :encouragement:

 

[Seajet]

birdseye,

worth asking their definition of an ' emergency ' too, do they mean roaring into harbour with the aft end on fire, sinking, being shot at, or the usual emergency of getting towards closing time ?

Size of boat - that seems weird, one could make a case for 35' looking after you but not too unweildy; they could call my 22 too bouncy and physically stressful for a single person - she isn't, but they could say that - likewise they could say ' no-one in their right mind single hands a 40'+ boat '...

Like Camelia I suspect you might be best changing; FWIW I have always had good service from Haven as in competetive premiums and being understanding when I needed an extra month on the mooring, but I haven't asked about singlehanding for a while, thanks to your thread I will !

 

[bitbaltic]

There's only one way you can be singlehanding at night 'in an emergency', which is that all your other crew have fallen overboard, because there is no sensible emergency that would require you to set sail alone at night to solve the problem.

Under those circumstances the insurance is the least of your problems

The only sensible reading of 'in an emergency' therefore has to be that it means if you are singlehanding by day and are caught out after dark still at sea. This, however, would hardly be an 'emergency' in yachts and terms and moreover supposes that you are insured to singlehand in the daytime, which it would be much simpler to state explicitly on the policy.

Also see no reason why a 35 footer has any bearing on it, plenty of single handed boats are much larger than this eg all the Gipsy Moths.

Conclude that your insurer does not really know the question you are asking and a better one is in order.

Cheers

 

[James_Calvert]

Hi Birdseye

I sail single handed almost 99% of the time all year round , I am with GJW who say that I am covered to sail single handed in 'daylight hours', but not for 'night sailing', thats fine for me as other than a couple of months daylight hours can be up to 10pm for a most of the time up on the North east coast.

On my request, my GJW insurance covers me for single handed sailing whatever the time of day, but my excess is doubled during the hours of darkness.

 

[alan_d]

There's only one way you can be singlehanding at night 'in an emergency', which is that all your other crew have fallen overboard, because there is no sensible emergency that would require you to set sail alone at night to solve the problem.

Really?

As a single hander you have decided to spend the night in a sheltered anchorage in a bay in a rocky shoreline. During the night an un-forecast gale from an unexpected direction means that your sheltered anchorage has become a lee shore, and under the influence of wind and waves your anchor starts to drag, so that you are getting ever closer to the breakers. This, I would suggest, constitutes an emergency that that would justify getting under way in the dark. Indeed, a prudent skipper will have planned an escape route bearing in mind this possibility.

 

[BrianH]

Last year my insurance covered single handing but I could find no mention of it in this years renewal so I raised the question with them.
[ .... ]
I was in a hurry and never single hand anyway - I only asked for emergency cover and so I have renewed. But that still leaves me puzzled. How does the boat being 35ft affect single handing at night? And does this mean I am covered in daytime? When is night - is it darkness or clock that decides.

I suppose I shall have to go back to them and ask. Anyone had a similar experience?

This was covered in an earlier insurance thread. My company, Yachting24, explicitly answered my query that I was covered for single-handed sailing (my usual situation) without mentioning any restrictions. I would not accept no night sailing; a longer passage will invariably entail sailing through the night.

There are many circumstances when one might be at sea at night without having had the original intention to be so, contrary winds or no wind - why should one have to motor on a fine, settled evening just to reach a destination before nightfall? Sometimes I change my destination plan entirely if I am headed by strong winds - one has to be flexible and that can mean an unplanned night at sea without it being an emergency. Even having to relocate an anchorage with a sudden wind change in the middle of the night can violate the restriction - that is still hardly an emergency, just normal seamanship. Anyway, I enjoy night sailing, it is part of my cruising.

 

[Cloven]

Some years ago my then insurace company added the clause " must be adequately crewed for any passage". Three phone calls later and with three different answers to what " adequately crewed" meant, my business went elsewhere. Was obvious that he desk jockeys had no idea.

 

[charles_reed]

Last year my insurance covered single handing but I could find no mention of it in this years renewal so I raised the question with them. The woman on the phone did not know the answer - indeed I got the impression that Towergate were going down the car insurance route with unqualified staff reading out prepared speeches ie did she know what single handing was. Maybe. Maybe not .

I'll have to talk to the underwriters she said and will get back to you. Which she did and when she told me that " It has been noted and agreed that the policy holder can single hand sail the craft at night only in emergency. He cannot does this normally due to the size of the craft."

I was in a hurry and never single hand anyway - I only asked for emergency cover and so I have renewed. But that still leaves me puzzled. How does the boat being 35ft affect single handing at night? And does this mean I am covered in daytime? When is night - is it darkness or clock that decides.

I suppose I shall have to go back to them and ask. Anyone had a similar experience?

Similar to mine with Lloyds Watkins WTK/457. Only one planned night single-handed (specified as hours of darkness) - agreed by underwriter to mean up to 36 hours (42 in summer) and relaxed due to "stress of weather", extending the period at sea. The stress is apparently on "planned". Boat is 31' and no reference made to boat size.

 

[GrahamM376]

Last year my insurance covered single handing but I could find no mention of it in this years renewal so I raised the question with them. The woman on the phone did not know the answer - indeed I got the impression that Towergate were going down the car insurance route with unqualified staff reading out prepared speeches ie did she know what single handing was. Maybe. Maybe not .

I'll have to talk to the underwriters she said and will get back to you. Which she did and when she told me that " It has been noted and agreed that the policy holder can single hand sail the craft at night only in emergency. He cannot does this normally due to the size of the craft."

I was in a hurry and never single hand anyway - I only asked for emergency cover and so I have renewed. But that still leaves me puzzled. How does the boat being 35ft affect single handing at night? And does this mean I am covered in daytime? When is night - is it darkness or clock that decides.

I suppose I shall have to go back to them and ask. Anyone had a similar experience?

We're with Towergate, 38ft boat, policy endorsed single handed day or night. Ask her to refer to underwriters and stress autopilot installed, this can make a difference.

Single handed cover more important than many realise as just moving from berth to fuel pontoon within marina is counted as single handing as far as insurers are concerned.

 

[Seajet]

birdseye,

thanks for raising this issue.

I just called my insurers, Haven; the young lady there knew exactly what I meant by singlehanding instantly and was very quick checking the details.

Turns out I am covered for any trip of up to 18 consecutive hours singlehanding, and that can be any amount of night or day, just the total of 18 hours matters.

While I can imagine circumstances where I might be pushed over the 18 hours - so would try to phone them but I expect I'd be too busy - I think it a fair enough limit, as that long especially in coastal / cross Channel waters is definitely long enough for anyone.

 

[jerrytug]

birdseye,

thanks for raising this issue.

I just called my insurers, Haven; the young lady there knew exactly what I meant by singlehanding instantly and was very quick checking the details.

Turns out I am covered for any trip of up to 18 consecutive hours singlehanding, and that can be any amount of night or day, just the total of 18 hours matters.

While I can imagine circumstances where I might be pushed over the 18 hours - so would try to phone them but I expect I'd be too busy - I think it a fair enough limit, as that long especially in coastal / cross Channel waters is definitely long enough for anyone.

Yes I get a standard 18 from Y Yacht, and I can go over it in circumstances which might not reasonably have been foreseen when concocting a 17hr 59minute passage plan, and I will still be covered. I had to tease it out of them, they aren't keen on commiting themselves over the phone but we got there in the end..

 

[[70521]]

On my request, my GJW insurance covers me for single handed sailing whatever the time of day, but my excess is doubled during the hours of darkness.

Same here.

 

[BelleSerene]

On my request, my GJW insurance covers me for single handed sailing whatever the time of day, but my excess is doubled during the hours of darkness.

+1. Me too. Takes a £250 excess up to £500 in the event of a claim (single-handed) 'after the hours of daylight' - but the insurance cover remains in place.

 

[pvb]

I sail single handed almost 99% of the time all year round , I am with GJW who say that I am covered to sail single handed in 'daylight hours', but not for 'night sailing', thats fine for me as other than a couple of months daylight hours can be up to 10pm for a most of the time up on the North east coast.

You'd be well advised to check what their definition of "daylight" is. Most insurers define it as between sunrise and sunset times, which is rather less than you might think.

 

[Stemar]

Yes I get a standard 18 from Y Yacht, and I can go over it in circumstances which might not reasonably have been foreseen when concocting a 17hr 59minute passage plan, and I will still be covered. I had to tease it out of them, they aren't keen on commiting themselves over the phone but we got there in the end..

If you've only got it teased out over the phone, I'd be inclined to send them an email confirming your understanding of the conversation, or thay could deny saying it should you need it.

 

[jerrytug]

If you've only got it teased out over the phone, I'd be inclined to send them an email confirming your understanding of the conversation, or thay could deny saying it should you need it.

Very good point and I will, thanks