Towball Mounted Winch?

Little Rascal

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Does anyone have any experience of using this kind of towball mounted winch for recovering a trailer sailer?

My problem is that it even on a familiar slip it often takes a couple of goes to get her properly on the trailer (mods are on the way!), and the wear and tear on the clutch is a problem. Being a fin keeler (needs 4ft to launch) doesn't help either, never mind the fact that I expect to use steeper slips when visiting other areas.

Has anyone used this type of winch? The boat and trailer weigh around 850-900kg: any idea on the kind of load that would put on the winch on a steeper slip?

Thanks!
Jon
 

prv

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Not seen that specific product before, but I think the unique bit is only the towball mount. The winch appears to be a standard trailer winch.

In your position I'd be inclined to get the 900kg version. Actually I'd be tempted by the electric one, both to guarantee sufficient power and because it will be easier to nudge up and down as you try to get the boat on the trailer properly. But it is considerably more expensive.

Pete
 

maxi77

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If you are looking at the lecky one qite a few of the 4X4 ones have towball mounts, not as snazzy as Bak Rak but seem to work. The 4X4 ones can also be fitted with little remote controls for a few pounds (I use one for my windlass a lot less expensive than Lofrans version) which may well be handy on the slip
 

northwind

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I'd be very wary of using something like this on a tow-ball, the forces that can be generated are far greater than the towball was ever designed to take.

Likewise any winch can bite badly...

I brought a bak-rak when they were first launched, I ended up throwing the thing in a skip...
 

Little Rascal

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...the forces that can be generated are far greater than the towball was ever designed to take...

Just curious (not skeptical) but how come, when the car is being used for exactly the same thing?

You can get the mounts on there own and fit any winch to them... but I'm thinking manual on the grounds of cost.
 

electrosys

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In my opinion it's at the wrong end ...

A much better place for a winch would be at the trailer's hitch point - with the cable running up to a snatch block fixed to the vehicle's hitch, and back again to the trailer. That way you can maintain some control over the boat as it's winched in, as well as decreasing the effort (by 50%) by using a snatch block.

If your boat/trailer combo weighs 900Kg, I'd budget for (say) a 400Kg pull, to allow for wheels dropping into gaps etc. Using a snatch block, you'd only be winching-in around 200Kg.

BTW - 50mm towballs are good for pulling up to a 3.5 ton trailer, but I don't know what that translates to in terms of a static bollard pull.
 
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banger

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Just been through this with an electric version,looked at the one sold by Towsure but came to the conclusion that one mounted on the boat trailer was the answer, bought one from winches UK with an 1588KG caperbility, towball mount means you have to unhitch the trailer to utilise the unit and I prefer to keep the boat and trailer together.
 

northwind

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The towbar and ball is not designed to take the kind of forces you can get with winching. For example imagine pulling a load and it getting stuck, you keep winching and so the load increases, this can be as simple as pulling the trailer over some big lumps on a slipway).

To quote bak-rak "Towbar manufacturers warranty will not cover using a winch - for good reason as it is possible to produce forces high enough to decapitate the towball - heaven knows what that does to a towbar but like most things - used sensibly it will be no problem! "

Thats a real lame attempt at removing liability by them. Can you mount the winch on the trailer instead?
 

prv

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The towbar and ball is not designed to take the kind of forces you can get with winching. For example imagine pulling a load and it getting stuck, you keep winching and so the load increases, this can be as simple as pulling the trailer over some big lumps on a slipway).

And yet if you left the trailer attached directly to the towbar and drove the car up the slipway, that would presumably be OK? What's the difference?

Can you mount the winch on the trailer instead?

And attach the other end of the cable to what? The towbar?

Pete
 

prv

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towball mount means you have to unhitch the trailer to utilise the unit and I prefer to keep the boat and trailer together.

I agree that mounting the winch on the trailer is more flexible (you could winch up from a ring at the top of the slipway, for example). But I don't understand your point about unhitching the trailer. Surely wherever the winch is mounted you have to unhitch the trailer to winch it around - otherwise what's the point?

Pete
 

banger

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I understand that to use a winch mounted on the tow ball the trailer must be separated from the vehicle, mounted on the trailer in the same position as the existing manual winch means I keep both the trailer and the vehicle hitched together, this provides stability for launch etc.
 

northwind

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And yet if you left the trailer attached directly to the towbar and drove the car up the slipway, that would presumably be OK? What's the difference?
If it is all moving nothing. The problem is if you winching a boat onto a trailer, the initial pull will take a very high load as you overcome friction, likewise if it gets stuck, and you try and winch it onwards. When you are moving something with wheels vs moving a lump the effort required will be very different. Going back to physics, its the convertion of potential energy into kinetic...

And attach the other end of the cable to what? The towbar?
Nope, its attached to the boat, he wanted a way of pulling the boat onto the trailer.

As others have suggested, put the winch on the trailer, and winch the boat from that.

I'd also suggest not using a wire cable, especially near to salt water...
 

prv

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Nope, its attached to the boat, he wanted a way of pulling the boat onto the trailer.

That's not how I read it. I thought he wanted to park the car at the top of the slip and winch the trailer up and down. Same as people sometimes use a long strop between towbar and trailer, to keep the car well away from the water and on dry concrete with good traction. Hence the talk about overworking the clutch by edging the car forwards; winching the trailer instead would save that.

If we're actually talking about winching the boat up rollers and onto the trailer, I agree it makes more sense to put the winch on the trailer.

Perhaps the OP can clarify which he means.

Pete
 

VicS

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The towbar and ball is not designed to take the kind of forces you can get with winching. For example imagine pulling a load and it getting stuck, you keep winching and so the load increases, this can be as simple as pulling the trailer over some big lumps on a slipway).

But surely this is only a manual winch. If the trailer gets stuck you wont be able to carry on winching

You'll come to your limit before you manage to break anything.
 

Little Rascal

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Here goes! This is a quick post as I'm off out in a mo...

squib.jpg


This is a Squib trailer, but essentially the same thing.

Pete has it right :cool:

The boat is not winched onto the trailer - the trailer is positioned in 4 feet depth of water and the boat lined up on it. The whole lot is the pulled out by my car on a 30-40 foot strop.... or winch :)eek:)...

I hope I have the neccessary brains to stop pulling if it is stuck...


If the winch were attached to the trailer (mechanically easier I grant you) then I would be chest deep while I operate it!
 

electrosys

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Maybe I'm being a bit thick here ... but what's the difference between encountering an obstruction on the slipway when using a winch, and when the trailer is directly coupled to the tow vehicle ?

If it takes an extra 500Kg of direct pull (say) to overcome the obstruction - how does the ball hitch 'know' which method is being used ?
 

Little Rascal

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Maybe I'm being a bit thick here ... but what's the difference between encountering an obstruction on the slipway when using a winch, and when the trailer is directly coupled to the tow vehicle ?

If it takes an extra 500Kg of direct pull (say) to overcome the obstruction - how does the ball hitch 'know' which method is being used ?

That was my thought too....
 

VicS

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That was my thought too....

If you were pulling with the car you'd realise something was wrong when you needed the engine at full power with smoke poring from the clutch and stop.

If you were winding a manually operated winch you'd go find a longer handle and a couple of tame gorillas to wind it and keep going until the tow bar broke.

Northwind is pulling your p*sser
 
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prv

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The boat is not winched onto the trailer - the trailer is positioned in 4 feet depth of water and the boat lined up on it. The whole lot is the pulled out by my car on a 30-40 foot strop.... or winch :)eek:)...

There you go then, guys. If you're worried about the winch wrenching the towbar off the car, you ought to be worried about the trailer doing the same thing directly. Or not.

Pete
 
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