Topsides definition?

TamarMike

TamarMike

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I'm just renewing my CG66 details and am puzzled as they ask for "Hull Colour (upper)", "Hull Colour (lower)", and "Topsides Colour". While I understand what they mean I have always understood topsides to refer to the hull above the waterline and thought coachroofs, wheelhouses etc. were upperworks.

I would have thought the Coastguard of all people would be using the correct terminology so have I got it wrong? :confused:
 
TamarMike said:
I'm just renewing my CG66 details and am puzzled as they ask for "Hull Colour (upper)", "Hull Colour (lower)", and "Topsides Colour". While I understand what they mean I have always understood topsides to refer to the hull above the waterline and thought coachroofs, wheelhouses etc. were upperworks.

I would have thought the Coastguard of all people would be using the correct terminology so have I got it wrong? :confused:
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Guessing. In CG speak:
Hull colour upper = topsides
Hull colour lower = antifouling
Topsides colour = deck, coachroof, etc

To me, upperworks is applied more to ships
 
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Twister_Ken said:
Guessing. In CG speak:
Hull colour upper = topsides
Hull colour lower = antifouling
Topsides colour = deck, coachroof, etc

To me, upperworks is applied more to ships
Click to expand...

While that is clearly what they mean I would have thought it would have been wiser for them not to use the word "topsides" at all.
 
This came up in the yachting mags a few months ago...

It's caused alot of confusion.

Topsides have as far as I know never ever referred to anything other than the side of the hull between the waterline and the gunwale!

There are plenty of other ways of describing what's above the gunwale but I've never heard it described as topsides until now!
 
Little Rascal said:
This came up in the yachting mags a few months ago...

It's caused alot of confusion.

Topsides have as far as I know never ever referred to anything other than the side of the hull between the waterline and the gunwale!

There are plenty of other ways of describing what's above the gunwale but I've never heard it described as topsides until now!
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Snap!
I think we need to accept that the people who write these things don't do boats!
 
Weird. Somewhere, about three or four years ago, I made a similar post (haven't bothered to do a Search, but it'll be there somewhere). I mailed the MCA, got a holding response, and....................................................................................................................................................................................................

And am still awaiting. Mind you, I mess up my email so much, I may have mismanaged any response from the MCA.

Part of the problem is that it has been suggested that "British" and "American" versions of the word cause the confusion. However, from memory, that's not quite the case - the word is not precise in either language. Sorry, I'll rephrase that; there appeared to be two precise, but contradictory, definitions, in both languages.

I was only able to resolve the problem by not renewing the CG66.

BTW, how's Pastique_Ken these days.

;-)
 
According to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary

The noun topsides means the hull above the waterline
however the adverb means on or towards the upper decks of a ship!

If it has not been nicked I'll have a look in the Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea down at the boatyard on the weekend.
 
various dictionaries give multiple definitions. I know when I was a mere novice on here, I was told off soundly for applying the word to above waterline.
 
Above The Deck but Definitions and Glossaries Might Disagree

Nautical Glossaries
Above The Water Line
Above The Main Deck
Above the water line

A random look appears to favour above the water line, but random could just reflect the quantity of American and Canadian web sites. As a Queens English speaker (not a particularly eloquent one), I have always understood this to be above the main deck i.e. the hull is the hull and top sides are stuck on top.

Interestingly, on Oil and Gas Platforms in the North Sea, Top Sides are above the main deck, including the modules on the main deck. There could be cellar decks, mezzanine decks and well head decks all below the main deck. It's not common to use the term Top Sides now on new platforms as Main Deck has taken over.

The CG66 definition is correct in my opinion, but TamarMike, you are not wrong either if the Glossaries are to be believed (none that I looked at quote sources).

I Googled Naval Architecture Terminology and their definition of the hull above the waterline is "Freeboard", not Topsides, which is conspicuous by it's absence, naturally.

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition defines the term has having two meanings; above water line and above deck.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
...I Googled Naval Architecture Terminology and their definition of the hull above the waterline is "Freeboard", not Topsides, which is conspicuous by it's absence, naturally....
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Naval architects:

My understanding of 'freeboard' is that it's used in the sense of a measurement rather like draught or beam.

You don't say I'm off to paint my freeboard, just as you wouldn't say i'm off to antifoul my draught!

I wonder what the boatbuilders call topsides/upper hull?
 
Little Rascal said:
Naval architects:

My understanding of 'freeboard' is that it's used in the sense of a measurement rather like draught or beam.

You don't say I'm off to paint my freeboard, just as you wouldn't say I'm off to antifoul my draught!

I wonder what the boatbuilders call topsides/upper hull?
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They probably say paint the hull in the clients colour and apply antifoul type x below the water line. Yes, I agree with the measurement association with freeboard.

Fabrication yards use the term "hull" for the whole hull and I am familiar with "Top Sides" for the assemblies on the deck and above. I suspect that Upper Works, like Top Sides is more a construction delineation term than a proper nautical term. Its quite normal for the hull and top sides to be constructed in parallel by different sections of the yard and then joined.

One modern and common ship building method is to build hulls from sections as opposed to keel up and even here, the definition of hull is not split at the water line. The hull section is made and the top sides section is made (complete with machinery, pipe, cables and paint scheme). The two are then mated in another yard location and then joined to the other hull / topside assemblies in a dry dock.

I was based in Korea for a while at Hyundai and witnessed quite remarkable construction methods. There were around 5 areas all making hull sections, many sheds, with nothing but bridges, deck sections, sterns and bows. The top sides were attached to the hull, and it all came together in a dry dock as one boat. Huge cranes and bogies moving all these massive sections around.

In one shed I remember a line of bridges (with no deck plate) complete with external stairs, davits, windows, funnels and logos. They were being fitted out with furniture and equipment. Some of these bridges were on bogies and one was moved outside where a hull section was waiting to have it's bridge lifted on and welded in place. This was a top side section and it had no base, the base being the deck of the hull.

I am not a ship builder and have only worked for clients who were having rigs and platforms built and while I may be wrong, I am sure that nobody called the part of the hull above the water line, top sides.

Language is flexible and definitions change depending on common popular usage.
 
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Maybe it's a boats vs ships thing.

Interestingly, paint manufacturers, chandlers and yards all seem to use the 'boaty' definition when it comes to yacht/boat paints.

Which is probably why when the CG refer to paint/colour of topsides 'boaty' people get confused!
 
I'll have a look in the Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea
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VicS, maybe I can help here. I have to hand the Oxford Companion, which says:

(1) that part of the side of a ship which is above the main wales. The term referred particularly to square-rigged sailing warships, where the main wales ran level with the bottom of the upper deck gunports. In its modern meaning it usually refers to that portion of the ship's side which rises above the upper deck though the term is often loosely used to refer to the upper deck itself: 'I'm going topsides': 'I'm going on the upper deck'.

(2) The sides of yachts, above the boot-topping, are also known as the topsides.

So, OED hast spoken -- al ist klaar, mein herren ????
 
As a complete novice to this sailing lark and not influenced by tradition my interpretation (as far as leisure sailing boats are concerned) is topsides is self descriptive :- "top of the sides", if viewed from another boat or shoreline.
Mind you what do I know (you might have a huge coach house/cabin ;upper deck ?):confused:
Runs away totally confused ------------->>>>>>>>>whoooooosh----->>
 
Plomong said:
VicS, maybe I can help here. I have to hand the Oxford Companion, which says:

(1) that part of the side of a ship which is above the main wales. The term referred particularly to square-rigged sailing warships, where the main wales ran level with the bottom of the upper deck gunports. In its modern meaning it usually refers to that portion of the ship's side which rises above the upper deck though the term is often loosely used to refer to the upper deck itself: 'I'm going topsides': 'I'm going on the upper deck'.

(2) The sides of yachts, above the boot-topping, are also known as the topsides.

So, OED hast spoken -- al ist klaar, mein herren ????
Click to expand...


OED: QED :)
 
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