Topsail - Unattended afloat clarified

[DavidJ]

After recent discussions I was still not 100% sure of my “Unattended afloat” ie at anchor in a bay status. With permission to post here, I’ve had this reply from the Director of Underwriting of of Topsail. I’m happy with this.

Please feel free to post my reply. Can you caveat though please that not all customers will be able to be offered a Topsail policy and some will be offered alternatives from other Insurers.

Thank you for your further email to Claire which I am picking up on her behalf.

The policy is structured on the basis that it provides cover for an accident or incident unless a specific exclusion applies to the incident that occurs. Taking extracts from Section A gives the cover under the following:

What is covered

1 Whilst ashore or afloat, being lifted, hauled out or launched, in transit by road, rail, air or car ferry the Vessel is covered for losses arising from:

1.1 all risks of accidental damage;

Under Section A – what is not covered the following exclusion is present:

Vessels less than 8.5 metres (28 feet) in length and RIBs (rigid inflatable boat) of any length, being stolen, swamped, stranded, sunk, or breaking adrift whilst moored or anchored unattended off an exposed beach or shore.

However, I believe your vessel is 37ft and therefore this would not apply to yourself.

Apart from the exclusion that we also discussed below which applies to smaller vessels there are no other exclusions that apply to moorings on your policy.

I trust this is the confirmation that you require and I hope I haven’t explained using too much ‘insurance speak’ but again I remain more than happy to discuss over the phone with you at a time convenient to you.

Kind regards
Ric De Cristofano
Director of Underwriting | Topsail Insurance Ltd

 

[Hurricane]

Are we saying that your tender stolen from a beach isn't covered?

 

[DavidJ]

Are we saying that your tender stolen from a beach isn't covered?

I really can’t be sure but it does say “ashore or afloat” but of course your boat is afloat......can you have both.....maybe should be ashore and afloat???? Aghhhhh!

I edit
just realised you were referring probably to the length clause not the “ashore“

 

[Scubadoo]

Thanks David for the heads-up, that is different to my current Y policy in reference to the 8.5m clause. Currently I have cover i.e. treated in the same way as 37ft boat as mentioned. Noted for when mine comes up for renewal later this year.

 

[Greg2]

Good to know - thanks for sharing ?

 

[ontheplane]

Why on earth I someone stole an 8.6m boat would it be covered, but if they stole an 8.4m one it wouldn’t.

What an utterly ridiculous clause. Either theft is covered or it’s not. “When fitted with an approved monitoring system” or something I could understand, but to just not cover it because it’s one side of a random length??.

Why you need to check these policies soooooo carefully.

 

[DavidJ]

Why on earth I someone stole an 8.6m boat would it be covered, but if they stole an 8.4m one it wouldn’t.

What an utterly ridiculous clause. Either theft is covered or it’s not. “When fitted with an approved monitoring system” or something I could understand, but to just not cover it because it’s one side of a random length??.

Why you need to check these policies soooooo carefully.

I queried this with Topsail in an earlier communication and had this reply:

The exclusion you refer to is specifically designed to ensure that small fast boats aren’t left on unsuitable moorings that leave the vessel liable to swamping or sinking. This has been a frequent occurrence in the past hence why Insurers have dealt with using this and similar exclusions.

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks David for the heads-up, that is different to my current Y policy in reference to the 8.5m clause. Currently I have cover i.e. treated in the same way as 37ft boat as mentioned. Noted for when mine comes up for renewal later this year.

That is odd as my Y-Yacht policy has had the clause below in every policy from 2015 - 2020

You are not covered for any claim arising:

.​

.​

from sinking or swamping whilst the Vessel is unattended afloat if the Vessel is less than 17 feet length overall and the Maximum Designed Speed is in excess of 17 knots, unless agreed by Us.​

The wording was slightly different in 2014

in addition where the maximum designed speed of the Vessel or other boats exceeds 17 knots (20 M.P.H.) no claim shall be allowed in respect of:

3.17.1 loss, damage, liability or expenses arising from the Vessel or other Boat being left unattended off an exposed beach or shore, unless the Insured can see the Vessel at all times and can return to the Vessel within 15 minutes; or​

Similar to the restriction mentioned earlier but only 5.2m in my policy instead of 8.4m. I always assumed that it was just meant to refer to my tender

 

[BruceK]

I surmise, but it would need clarification.

Where I am the tides can reach up to 8m. Small vessels dont carry tenders. It is always a wonder to watch the lengths small boat owners go to to reach shore. Battling small shorebreak waves close in to deboard. Pushing the boat out as far as they can on it's anchor only to run back a few minutes later as the tide changes taking the boat too far out or leaving in in the wave line. It's a constant battle and lose your eye on it for just a few minutes and you can guarrantee a disaster. Even my dink can be problematic and that can be hauled far up the beach. But launching it into a shore break quickly demonstrates why it'd make a truly rubbish liferaft. Leaving a small vessel on anchor unattended close to the beach is a risk I would not take insurance or not

 

[madabouttheboat]

Vessels less than 8.5 metres (28 feet) in length and RIBs (rigid inflatable boat) of any length, being stolen, swamped, stranded, sunk, or breaking adrift whilst moored or anchored unattended off an exposed beach or shore.

I hate any opportunity for ambiguity when it comes to insurance policies. 28ft and 8.5m are close, but not exactly the same. Is it 27ft 10in or is it 8.53m. For those with a boat hovering around this size, it might make all the difference.

 

[BruceK]

I hate any opportunity for ambiguity when it comes to insurance policies. 28ft and 8.5m are close, but not exactly the same. Is it 27ft 10in or is it 8.53m. For those with a boat hovering around this size, it might make all the difference.

Why fret. Extend your bow roller and clinch it.

 

[ontheplane]

Ah but is it waterline length, LOA, Hull without additions.

You can betcha when there is a claim it would be the one that got them out of paying!

 

[ChrisP1]

After recent discussions I was still not 100% sure of my “Unattended afloat” ie at anchor in a bay status. With permission to post here, I’ve had this reply from the Director of Underwriting of of Topsail. I’m happy with this.

So he's confirming that you could anchor your boat in a bay unattended for 6 months, bugger off home and if the boat was on the rocks when you got back, Topsail would pay out? Wow thats one hell of an insurance policy

 

[petem]

So he's confirming that you could anchor your boat in a bay unattended for 6 months, bugger off home and if the boat was on the rocks when you got back, Topsail would pay out? Wow thats one hell of an insurance policy

Topsail pay out for accidental damage. I would call damage to a boat left unattended in a bay for 6 months inevitable, not accidental. Note that 'accidental' isn't a defined term so the plain-language meaning would be applicable.

 

[petem]

Incidentally, I'm told that this exact thing happened where we're berthed. Somebody bought a brand new power catamaran, dropped the hook in the bay immediately north of our marina (Marina Greenwich, the most glamorous Yacht Club in Costa Blanca, Spain - YouTube ), got on the plane and went home. They were too tight to pay for a marina berth. The boat was washed up against the rocks and sank. The insurance was invalidated. The engines were never recovered!

 

[Mistroma]

So he's confirming that you could anchor your boat in a bay unattended for 6 months, bugger off home and if the boat was on the rocks when you got back, Topsail would pay out? Wow thats one hell of an insurance policy

I doubt the policy says anything similar to the situation you describe. I expect he'd be covered if all practical steps were taken to make his vessel safe and secure. Unexpected weather or medical emergency might make it impossible to return to an anchored boat and I imagine the policy would cover that situation.

I'm pretty certain that my own Y-Yacht policy allows me to leave the boat at anchor unattended for up to 24 hours. I usually anchor all the time and leave the boat for several hours and have asked about cover at anchor.

You are commenting on a specific exclusion and I have a similar exclusion in my policy. However, it does not remove insurance cover from my boat when at anchor.

 

[petem]

I'm pretty certain that my own Y-Yacht policy allows me to leave the boat at anchor unattended for up to 24 hours. I usually anchor all the time and leave the boat for several hours and have asked about cover at anchor.

The Y Motor Boat policy doesn't say anything about 24 hours. There are no restrictions but the damage has to be accidental (see my post #14).

 

[Mistroma]

The Y Motor Boat policy doesn't say anything about 24 hours. There are no restrictions but the damage has to be accidental (see my post #14).

I'd need to check my policy but do remember asking specifically about anchoring and being told up to 24 hours unattended was covered. I would have had that in writing as I'm very careful wrt insurance. I'll see if I can find it.

I was mainly pointing out that a comment stating that a specific exclusion for one thing did not automatically mean that the policy would cover another situation.

 

[LBRodders]

That is odd as my Y-Yacht policy has had the clause below in every policy from 2015 - 2020

You are not covered for any claim arising:

.​

.​

from sinking or swamping whilst the Vessel is unattended afloat if the Vessel is less than 17 feet length overall and the Maximum Designed Speed is in excess of 17 knots, unless agreed by Us.​

Same...

Albeit for us @8m a change may prove significant.

 

[BruceK]

This points to what I was saying above. Smaller boats without a tender in the waveline