toppinglift/lazy jack rope

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 Mar 2005
Messages
12,954
Location
Buckingham
www.keepturningleft.co.uk
Hardly seems all that critical. At a guess, mine's probably 10mm. It's 3-strand to distinguish it from the various other (braided) lines nearby.

Pete
 
dylanwinter said:
For the first time I will have a boat with some sort of lazy jack come topping lift arrangement

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/rigging-diagram-003.jpg

the whole rig is here

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/rigging-diagrams/

what size rope should I be using?

I don't want it too thick because of the windage and I don't want it too thin because of the handling

and can anyone recommend an ebay rope seller who will do the best "buy now" price

Dylan
Click to expand...

On mine it's 8mm standard braid on braid, bought in a remainder bin at Southampton boat jumble....
 
I'd say 8-10 mm. for the topping lift but less - say 5-6 mm. for the lazy jacks. The former might just be called on to act as an emergency halyard. The latter don't have to do much work but might damage the sail if they're too thin.
 
reeac said:
I'd say 8-10 mm. for the topping lift but less - say 5-6 mm. for the lazy jacks. The former might just be called on to act as an emergency halyard. The latter don't have to do much work but might damage the sail if they're too thin.
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Ah, but this is a gaff topping lift - the line running across the sail in this picture. Unlikely to be much use as a halyard.

Pete
 
modified

prv said:
Ah, but this is a gaff topping lift - the line running across the sail in this picture. Unlikely to be much use as a halyard.

Pete
Click to expand...

I did try the topping lift the way it has been suggested in Mick Wells excellent drawing

however, it seemed really odd with all that extra friction and as you raised it the lines snagged the jaws of the gaff

so I have taken a line from three quarters of the way back along the boom to the top of the mast, through a block at the top of the side stay and back to the bottom of the mast and then to the cockpit

one on each side sadly

not sure if it is going to work

one heck of a lot of windage on the mast with all the lines for the jib, ghoster, two for the gaff, now two for the topping lift/lazy jacks and the penant halyard

makes the slug mast look like a stripped down racing machine

however, with the mark 2 tiopping lift I can at least slacken the line and get it away from the middle of the sail where it will create massive amounts of turbulance

Dylan
 
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dylanwinter said:
I did try the topping lift the way it has been suggested in Mick Wells excellent drawing

however, it seemed really odd with all that extra friction so I have taken a line from three quarters of the way back along the boom to the top of the mast, through a block at the top of the sude stay and back to the bottom of the mast

one on each side
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Ah - I hadn't actually looked at any of the drawings. What you describe is the setup that KS has, should work fine.

You want the two sides fixed at the boom, not rigged to slide from one side to the other under it. That way you can use just the windward topping lift to hold the boom up without interfering with the sail you're dropping or reefing.

Pete
 
dylanwinter said:
makes the slug mast look like a stripped down racing machine
Click to expand...
Oh. Come along now. You couldn't make that mistake.

Does a lot of line aloft really make much difference? I know it can be noisy, but I can't see it having any real-world effect.

I tried and gave up twice with lazy jacks on sub-20ft boats. However I can see the benefit, when single-handing a gaff rig, of having something to control the yard on the way down.

10mm seems a bit OTT. 6 or possibly 8mm would be more than adequate for lazy jacks.
I can't see the point in using heavier line on the off chance that you may one day use the set-up for something it wasn't designed for.

I think you are planning on having the mast easy to lower anyway, so a lost halyard won't be a drama.
 
Lakesailor said:
Does a lot of line aloft really make much difference? I know it can be noisy, but I can't see it having any real-world effect.
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If it's windy, yes. Take a line from the masthead on a windy day, holding the end of it in your hand, and pull it forward into the wind. You'll have a certain amount of resistance; obviously how much depends on the size and length of the rope. Multiply that force by the number of ropes on the boat, and imagine it dragging you backwards as you try to sail upwind, and it is a consideration.

Obviously more of an issue if you have half a dozen substantial ropes heading aloft, like me, rather than a single topping lift or something with everything else inside a hollow mast.

Pete
 
A matter of proportion though. On that windy day the sail will be impossible to pull into the wind by just tugging on the boom and the hull will have a fair bit of windage as well.
 
I have double topping lifts 10mm braid on a very heavy weight sail-30 square metre and gaff rig. The toppers are led to the rear of the solid boom from the spreaders to a point above the gaff jaws. I find that is quite adequete and don't find any need for lazyjacks cluttering things up.The gaff drops easily sliding down between the toppings. Whilst lowering the gaff I haul in on the reeflines and that tidies the sail up nicely. Do it on my own no problem from the foredeck.
 
very good

tolhurstorganic said:
I have double topping lifts 10mm braid on a very heavy weight sail-30 square metre and gaff rig. The toppers are led to the rear of the solid boom from the spreaders to a point above the gaff jaws. I find that is quite adequete and don't find any need for lazyjacks cluttering things up.The gaff drops easily sliding down between the toppings. Whilst lowering the gaff I haul in on the reeflines and that tidies the sail up nicely. Do it on my own no problem from the foredeck.
Click to expand...

feeling better about this already

toppings..... new word

squirrel that one away

D
 
Lakesailor said:
A matter of proportion though. On that windy day the sail will be impossible to pull into the wind by just tugging on the boom and the hull will have a fair bit of windage as well.
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Well, hopefully the sail is providing net forward drive, not being dragged face-on into the wind. And yes, the hull does provide a fair bit of windage, which is why older boats tend to have low freeboard to minimise it.

Pete
 
tolhurstorganic said:
I have double topping lifts 10mm braid on a very heavy weight sail-30 square metre and gaff rig. The toppers are led to the rear of the solid boom from the spreaders to a point above the gaff jaws. I find that is quite adequete and don't find any need for lazyjacks cluttering things up.The gaff drops easily sliding down between the toppings. Whilst lowering the gaff I haul in on the reeflines and that tidies the sail up nicely. Do it on my own no problem from the foredeck.
Click to expand...

our westerly is the same but we have roller reefing so the toppers go to the end of the boom . So easy to drop sail even on a run
 
all ropes even the roller lead to the cockpit so dont have to leave the cockpit just throw a couple of lines over the gaff to tie the sail .. we do have a boom gaff crutch at the stern though ... serves as a mast crutch when the masts down.
 
the crutch catches the gaff but the boom misses the crutch. When the gaff is dropped,the line we use to tie the bunt of the sail up pulls the boom up to the gaff and keeps it from swinging in the wind
 
dylanwinter said:
so you have two toppers - on one each side

each one goes to its own side of the boat

is that right
Click to expand...

Yep. While the sail is up, you generally just use whichever is currently the windward one. Although a bit of tension on the other will help guide the gaff down into place.

Second the suggestion of not adding extra lazy-jack lines unless experience shows you need them. Just the topping lifts work fine to control the sail on KS.

Pete
 
funny

yesterday I thought I had invented something new

and I thought this is never going to work otherwise everyone else would be doing it

duH!

I myself cannot see how the system in the drawing is ever going to work - the fristcion seemed massive

now this crutch thing

do I need to make one?

D
 
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