steve yates
Well-Known Member
Oi! my longbow is 31ft and weighs 8 tonnes, a twister is 28ft and weighs 5 tons.
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Too many anchors
- Thread starter zoidberg
- Start date
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I did wonder what the issue was.
I compared the windage of a 45' Bav with our cat, I had good drawings of each, and a smaller Bav (courtesy of the Bav distributor here). Basically our 38' cat and the 45' Bav have the same windage (based on their yawing - not simply a front view).
The Bav, I recall (might be wrong, don't recall now) has a weight of 12t, dry, and we have a weight of 7t, wet (including crew of 2) - so not quite directly comparable. The major difference is largely accounted by the lump of lead (or iron/steel) that the Bav need carry. We have some optional kit that would not be in a 'off the production line' Bav - microwave, desal, solar, wind gen, HF, extra head etc.
Basically the Bav has 'roughly' the same weight of mast/rigging (it IS a bigger mast) but the fibre glass used in both is 'about' the same. The accomodation, size, is also similar (which is what you would expect if they use the same amount of glass/epoxy) - just a different configuration. so suggesting the cat is a floating caravan - also suggests the same barbs, if that was intended, at the Bav.
The fact that the Bav cannot average 10 knots over 100nm nor peak at over 16 knots (with one person on deck) suggests that equating a modern cat with a caravan lacks any logic. A sister cat to ours, with a full crew of 4, on delivery to a boat show peaked at just over 21 knots - we have that 'need for speed' but its more difficult to keep on top of everything - with only 2 crew (and one on deck) and I can wimp out.
I did the comparison so that I could equate our ground tackle demands to something of a monohull - and the Bav 45 comes as close as is possible. The keel might mean the Bav has slightly lower demands - I have not quite thought it through - I'm happy with the crude comparison.
One tends to think that the windage of a cat is massive - forgetting that when vessels yaw they can lie side on to the wind direction - and then 'suddenly' the windage of the Bav becomes massive.
Jonathan
I compared the windage of a 45' Bav with our cat, I had good drawings of each, and a smaller Bav (courtesy of the Bav distributor here). Basically our 38' cat and the 45' Bav have the same windage (based on their yawing - not simply a front view).
The Bav, I recall (might be wrong, don't recall now) has a weight of 12t, dry, and we have a weight of 7t, wet (including crew of 2) - so not quite directly comparable. The major difference is largely accounted by the lump of lead (or iron/steel) that the Bav need carry. We have some optional kit that would not be in a 'off the production line' Bav - microwave, desal, solar, wind gen, HF, extra head etc.
Basically the Bav has 'roughly' the same weight of mast/rigging (it IS a bigger mast) but the fibre glass used in both is 'about' the same. The accomodation, size, is also similar (which is what you would expect if they use the same amount of glass/epoxy) - just a different configuration. so suggesting the cat is a floating caravan - also suggests the same barbs, if that was intended, at the Bav.
The fact that the Bav cannot average 10 knots over 100nm nor peak at over 16 knots (with one person on deck) suggests that equating a modern cat with a caravan lacks any logic. A sister cat to ours, with a full crew of 4, on delivery to a boat show peaked at just over 21 knots - we have that 'need for speed' but its more difficult to keep on top of everything - with only 2 crew (and one on deck) and I can wimp out.
I did the comparison so that I could equate our ground tackle demands to something of a monohull - and the Bav 45 comes as close as is possible. The keel might mean the Bav has slightly lower demands - I have not quite thought it through - I'm happy with the crude comparison.
One tends to think that the windage of a cat is massive - forgetting that when vessels yaw they can lie side on to the wind direction - and then 'suddenly' the windage of the Bav becomes massive.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-Known Member
But returning to the question
If you are going off piste and you do lose your primary, or bower, and your off piste is - say Stanley (FI) - how precisely do you get a replacement - the answer is - by courier - I know, I asked as we met someone who had one delivered there. You cannot safely go anywhere else, unless you marina hop (and marinas tend to be a bit like hens teeth). So your whole schedule need be abandoned - because you only carry one primary + something else that is not as good as the primary (so would you trust it?).
On another visit to an anchorage in Victoria, off Bass Strait - we met a couple who had had only one anchor - which they had lost They came looking for anyone who had a spare so they could anchor and have a rest - as they made their way to the nearest chandler, somewhere closer to Melbourne. At the time we did not have a large inventory on board (they were, uselessly, in my workshop). There were a few words over dinner and this all crystallised my mind - we increased our numbers. As someone said - not much use at home
Losing an anchor is not uncommon, NormanS suggested he got close, Vyv lost one (due to a swivel failure) we lost one due to a shackle failure (we used the spare, a CQR since retired< and retrieved the one that was lost next day (using our inverted candelabra). I also became a bit fixated with shackles (and would never use a stainless one in the rode).
We live and learn.
Numbers of anchors depend on the itinerary (and variability of the likely seabeds) - but we would not want to re-schedule simply to prove a point and save the cost and weight of a second primary as good as the first.
Interestingly racing yachts, say Volvo or Vendee Globe - none of whom expect to anchor (at all) - are required to carry 2 full sized anchors FX85 and FX55 respectively (and on previous VG one Fortress was lost (at Auckland Island) and the second one deployed - proving that the requirement to carry 2 primaries has some justification)
Jonathan
If you are going off piste and you do lose your primary, or bower, and your off piste is - say Stanley (FI) - how precisely do you get a replacement - the answer is - by courier - I know, I asked as we met someone who had one delivered there. You cannot safely go anywhere else, unless you marina hop (and marinas tend to be a bit like hens teeth). So your whole schedule need be abandoned - because you only carry one primary + something else that is not as good as the primary (so would you trust it?).
On another visit to an anchorage in Victoria, off Bass Strait - we met a couple who had had only one anchor - which they had lost They came looking for anyone who had a spare so they could anchor and have a rest - as they made their way to the nearest chandler, somewhere closer to Melbourne. At the time we did not have a large inventory on board (they were, uselessly, in my workshop). There were a few words over dinner and this all crystallised my mind - we increased our numbers. As someone said - not much use at home
Losing an anchor is not uncommon, NormanS suggested he got close, Vyv lost one (due to a swivel failure) we lost one due to a shackle failure (we used the spare, a CQR since retired< and retrieved the one that was lost next day (using our inverted candelabra). I also became a bit fixated with shackles (and would never use a stainless one in the rode).
We live and learn.
Numbers of anchors depend on the itinerary (and variability of the likely seabeds) - but we would not want to re-schedule simply to prove a point and save the cost and weight of a second primary as good as the first.
Interestingly racing yachts, say Volvo or Vendee Globe - none of whom expect to anchor (at all) - are required to carry 2 full sized anchors FX85 and FX55 respectively (and on previous VG one Fortress was lost (at Auckland Island) and the second one deployed - proving that the requirement to carry 2 primaries has some justification)
Jonathan
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thinwater
Well-Known Member
My feeling is you need have two. Since I once lost an anchor due to stupidity, that means a minimum of three. More is up to the individual and I won't preach.
I would add enough rope for some shore ties; you need it for spare rode, towing, drogues, and kedging anyway.
I would add enough rope for some shore ties; you need it for spare rode, towing, drogues, and kedging anyway.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
We carry two anchors , our good old faithful (Bruce ) the Rocna who never let us down other then when he decide to pick some crap up and our fortress Sheila .
Bruce and Shelia , good old down under names , and that's where we want them to say , down under . Until it's time to move ,
we did have a third anchor a delta but some years ago we donated to another boat who was having problem setting there CQR and ended up given to them as a present .
WE nearly lost both anchors once the Rocna when the chain slips in between to very large rocks in a crack no bigger then the chain side , lucky for us we had a tripping line on that time as we know there was a chance of fouling,
we release all our chain and pull the anchor up with the chain still in between the rocks , re move the anchor then pull the chain out.
The fortress was to help a fellow yacht men who went a ground in mud to heal his boat over from his mast head , we got him off but breaking the anchor out was another thing . It came out in the end .
We use a kong swivel it's now 8 years old , we take it apart now and them to check it .
Thinking it may be time to renew it the end of the season although still looks as good as new . Be interested in Vyv opinion as he done some test .
Have have use the anchors in different combining over the years to gather .
I happy to cruiser with just two anchors , my lockers are over fill now without carrying something we many never use ,
Bruce and Shelia , good old down under names , and that's where we want them to say , down under . Until it's time to move ,
we did have a third anchor a delta but some years ago we donated to another boat who was having problem setting there CQR and ended up given to them as a present .
WE nearly lost both anchors once the Rocna when the chain slips in between to very large rocks in a crack no bigger then the chain side , lucky for us we had a tripping line on that time as we know there was a chance of fouling,
we release all our chain and pull the anchor up with the chain still in between the rocks , re move the anchor then pull the chain out.
The fortress was to help a fellow yacht men who went a ground in mud to heal his boat over from his mast head , we got him off but breaking the anchor out was another thing . It came out in the end .
We use a kong swivel it's now 8 years old , we take it apart now and them to check it .
Thinking it may be time to renew it the end of the season although still looks as good as new . Be interested in Vyv opinion as he done some test .
Have have use the anchors in different combining over the years to gather .
I happy to cruiser with just two anchors , my lockers are over fill now without carrying something we many never use ,
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Good to see Vic that you have time for diversions other than the windlass - welcome back to the other world.
Jonathan
edit,
But calling a Rocna, Bruce, is terribly confusing (especially as I associate Bruce, as a 'given' (is that PC) name with Oz not NZ) - OR with that name of a very talented anchor designer (who had an innovative, non roll bar anchor, awarded his, surname).
close edit
Jonathan
edit,
But calling a Rocna, Bruce, is terribly confusing (especially as I associate Bruce, as a 'given' (is that PC) name with Oz not NZ) - OR with that name of a very talented anchor designer (who had an innovative, non roll bar anchor, awarded his, surname).
close edit
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KellysEye
Well-Known Member
Four is wrong we had a CQR as the main anchor, a Fortress as a second anchor for gales and a large Fortress for storms which fortunately we never had to use.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
lived with it for nearly three years I guess I be living with it a bit longer , the day when it happens every time I haul up then I might find then problem
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
A good friend with whom I exchange banter, including mutterings about this kind of thread, has sent me this 'confession'....
That's almost - but not quite - as bad as me.
Edit: I've since been rummaging about in the depths of my polytunnel where I squirrel boaty bits, and I've come up with this....
Spade S80 15kg; Kobra2 14kg; Fortress Fx-16, times two; Fortress Fx-7; CQR 11kg, times two; Folding Fisherman 15lb; Folding grapnel 4kg.
There's also more than enough chain. And warp. One can tell I frequented the Beaulieu Boat Jumble more than most!
Mea culpa! But some of the above were inherited, and there's a reluctance to to jettison good gear.
I have just agreed to buy yet another one, on Gumtree.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/sailing-equipment/anchor/1347014588
That gives me a Knox 9kg, a FX16, a FX11, a Delta 16kg, and the new one on board...... and a CQR 25lb and a Rocna, at home. Do you think that will be enough ?
Oh, and a small Guardian for the dinghy.
That's almost - but not quite - as bad as me.
Edit: I've since been rummaging about in the depths of my polytunnel where I squirrel boaty bits, and I've come up with this....
Spade S80 15kg; Kobra2 14kg; Fortress Fx-16, times two; Fortress Fx-7; CQR 11kg, times two; Folding Fisherman 15lb; Folding grapnel 4kg.
There's also more than enough chain. And warp. One can tell I frequented the Beaulieu Boat Jumble more than most!
Mea culpa! But some of the above were inherited, and there's a reluctance to to jettison good gear.
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