to screw or glue

[stu9000]

Hi

A little sanding tends to uncover a long list of jobs don't you find?
Yes, it is worth doing properly but I need a little guidance please.

This is the cockpit with the wood slats half sanded down.
What wood do you think? Cedar?

This is the cockpit with slats removed.
A few started to come away and I didn't like the look of the screw holes so I took them all off to have a good look.
She is a dry boat but you can see water has been getting in.

I have been sanding the wood slats back at home and even started to put a coat of epoxy on.
But they have gone very dark and it does not really match well with the rest of the wood finish around the cockpit.

I also don't particularly like the spacing.
And, I'm not keen on redrilling new cockpit seat holes that I have just drilled out and filled with epoxy.

The cubby hole trim has come up lighter as has a number of other areas I did not get around to getting photos for.

Im tempted to fit new, slightly narrower and closer together wood strips and just glue them rather than screw into fibreglass.
- is it ok to just glue?
- what wood should I go for to match the trim and where could i get it reasonably cheaply?

Thank you all

Stu

 

[LadyInBed]

If you want the slats closer together you could attach them to (shaped) cross battens and glue/screw the battens to the GRP.

 

[Tranona]

Pretty sure they are teak - so not a good idea to either sand them or epoxy - they go dark and teak does not like epoxy. You could have got most of that crud off with just a light hand sanding and an oxalid acid based teak cleaner.

Not sure whether you can recover the ones you have epoxied, but teak strips can easily be glued down without fastenings using Sikaflex adhesive. Be aware that future replacement will involve much hard work removing them from the GRP.

Think if I were doing the job, I would glue them down with sika using bricks as weights while the glue cures, then bore the holes to take a teak plug. That and the adhesive will fill the screw hole so no more leaks.

On going maintenance is just washing and using a cleaner such as that from Wessex Chemicals once or twice a year. That will keep the natural look and avoid mould growing.

 

[Tam Lin]

A bit of Fred drift. I replaced mine with Treadmaster, stopped the leaks, looks nice!

 

[PCUK]

Burgess wood sealer gives teak a nice light look.

 

[Concerto]

A bit of Fred drift. I replaced mine with Treadmaster, stopped the leaks, looks nice!

I removed my 35 year old TreadMaster from my Fulmar to find osomis had started due to incomplete bonding. Now replaced with teak panels from KJ Howells. http://www.kjhowells.com/teak_decking.html

Nearly finished fitting the teak and used buckets and bins filled with water as weights.
http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/ConcertoFulmar32/media/IMAG1462_zpsjiaf6alu.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13

 

[stu9000]

Bugger! Can't believe I have wasted good epoxy on good teak. Too cross to type

 

[geem]

Bugger! Can't believe I have wasted good epoxy on good teak. Too cross to type

We have a friend with a cockpit similar to yours using slats. I cant believe how seriously uncomfortable slats are. Have you considered replacing the slats with full teak in strips like a conventional teak deck? Our cockpit is 1" thick teak on the cockpit floor and seats. Ours has been down for two seasons now on a liveaboard boat and looks fantastic. We did a lot of research into how best to fix the teak. The best solution for us was to bond it directly to the grp using a good 1:1 epoxy. No holes to create leaks and likley to be in place for the life of the boat! Fixing with Sikalex and the like is easier but not as permanent. The bond will likley fail at some point in the future as the cockpit is a high use area. Jumping up and down on seats, etc. With epoxy you add strength by effectively creating a composite teak grp construction. Not so with a flexible glue bond such as Sikaflex.

 

[pmagowan]

Epoxy should only be used to bond thin teak veneers because if the teak is thicker than about 6mm expansion will potentially overpower the bond. That is why a flexible adhesive is used such as sikaflex.

 

[Tranona]

Epoxy should only be used to bond thin teak veneers because if the teak is thicker than about 6mm expansion will potentially overpower the bond. That is why a flexible adhesive is used such as sikaflex.

Indeed. The Geougeon Brothers specifically advise against using epoxy to bond teak strips down - even thin ones if you caulk in between with epoxy as you get expansion across the strips and the bond breaks.

Polyurethane adhesive is the correct thing to use and will adhere as anybody who has tried to remove decks so bonded will tell you!

 

[neil_s]

I found the teak slats uncomfortable. After much soul searching, I took them off, filled the screw holes and painted with cream deck paint. Easy care, anti-glare, no leaks and non-slip!

 

[stu9000]

Thanks for all the replies

Im not wedded to teak as there isnt any elsewhere on the boat so would be a mismatch.
Doing away with the wood altogether was given some thought but having none would tip the cockpit too far towards plastic.

So I am thinking Ill create new slats, closer together so more comfortable and possibly very slightly raised off the fibreglass to aid cleaning.

The main issue is to get a good colour match on the other wood elements.

This represents the colour Id like to get:

What type of wood do you think this is?

Perhaps Im a philistine but im tempted to use pine and wood stain to get the right effect and then epoxy and varnish. The woodstain could be a faff though.
Is if the price is right I might do it in cedar.

Ill probably make a new grating for the cockpit sole too.

 

[geem]

Epoxy should only be used to bond thin teak veneers because if the teak is thicker than about 6mm expansion will potentially overpower the bond. That is why a flexible adhesive is used such as sikaflex.

We are on talking of a cockpit seat not the acres of teak deck you find on super yachts! Expansion will not be a problem over such as small area. If you do some googling you will see epoxy fixed teak decks are common place and superior to mastic but it takes more effort to do correctly.

 

[geem]

Indeed. The Geougeon Brothers specifically advise against using epoxy to bond teak strips down - even thin ones if you caulk in between with epoxy as you get expansion across the strips and the bond breaks.

Polyurethane adhesive is the correct thing to use and will adhere as anybody who has tried to remove decks so bonded will tell you!

West epoxy is the great con trick. 5:1 epoxy is dirt cheap to make and sold by West at top notch prices. It doesn't surprise me they dont recommend it for fixing teak. Buy some good epoxy and will not have a problem for the cockpit seats.
By pals Bavaria has decks laid of mastic by Bavaria. He had no problem getting the teak off since it came off on its own.....

 

[Poignard]

Indeed. The Geougeon Brothers specifically advise against using epoxy to bond teak strips down - even thin ones if you caulk in between with epoxy as you get expansion across the strips and the bond breaks.

(...)

They must have had a change of heart since publishing their book "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction", in which is described their technique for setting teak decking strips in epoxy.

The method is also recommended in the relevant WEST manuals.

 

[stu9000]

Hi
Just to reiterate
Im not going to use the teak batons I took off.
They are a bit tatty, not very comfortable and does not colour match with the other wood.
Im leaning towards a stained pine wood for both seat batons and a new grating.

Ta

S

 

[rogerthebodger]

Hi
Just to reiterate
Im not going to use the teak batons I took off.
They are a bit tatty, not very comfortable and does not colour match with the other wood.
Im leaning towards a stained pine wood for both seat batons and a new grating.

Ta

S

IMHO stained pine will look c**p due to the difference in the grain of the wood between hard wood and soft wood.

This is what I did in my hatch garage Iroko with sikaflex infill on a marine ply backing.

I also did my floors in a similar way with strips of iroko and jacaranda wood.

 

[Tranona]

They must have had a change of heart since publishing their book "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction", in which is described their technique for setting teak decking strips in epoxy.

The method is also recommended in the relevant WEST manuals.

But only for very thin veneers - they are talking about 3-5mm. Anything above that the seams should be flexible caulking to allow for expansion and contraction across the width of the strip. Exactly the point I was making about using it for 1" thick planks. See p 354 of the 5th edition.

Having said all that I veneered the cockpit seats of my boat about 25 years ago with 4mm veneers caulked with blackened epoxy and they are still perfect. However except when in use they are under a heavy cockpit cover so not exposed to the elements. I did do a bit that way on exposed deck and it only lasted a few years before the epoxy cracked. Have just covered the whole deck and coachroof with sawn strips rather than veneer, again 4mm and used polyurethane rather than epoxy.

 

[Tranona]

Hi
Just to reiterate
Im not going to use the teak batons I took off.
They are a bit tatty, not very comfortable and does not colour match with the other wood.
Im leaning towards a stained pine wood for both seat batons and a new grating.

Ta

S

Not sure that will turn out very satisfactory in the long run. Not non slip, still uncomfortable and a PITA to keep bright finished slats looking goo.

Best functional solution is caulked teak panels which you can get made to size from www.kjhowells.com which are ready to glue down, or in kits of precut strips to assemble yourself. Left bare and cleaned with a teak cleaner a couple of times a year they are durable, comfortable to sit on and look good.

 

[stu9000]

Not sure that will turn out very satisfactory in the long run. Not non slip, still uncomfortable and a PITA to keep bright finished slats looking goo.

Best functional solution is caulked teak panels which you can get made to size from www.kjhowells.com which are ready to glue down, or in kits of precut strips to assemble yourself. Left bare and cleaned with a teak cleaner a couple of times a year they are durable, comfortable to sit on and look good.

I hear you, and Rogershaw's pics look lovely.
But there is no teak panels elsewhere.
I wonder if it would just look out of place.
But maybe softwood is not a good solution either.
Ill have a look at kjhowells.com and see what hardwood options there are.

Ta

S