To epoxy or re-gellcoat my 27ft macwester?

[nickypea]

Hi all,

I have a 27ft Mac Wester which my grandfather has given me. It is in a sorry state but has a brand new beta 20 in her so is worth salvaging.

My first port of call is to re do the hull and deck. I need to paint all of her and I am in two minds regarding what system to use.

My question:

Do I re-paint the boat with gell coat (don't mind the sanding) or epoxy paint the whole boat?

Budget isn't huge as I have a young family and need to get the boat on the water before they are at school (a mooring has also been given to me so hopefully cheap holidays to be had).

Has anyone re-gel coated there boat and if so how has it weathered I.e has it started to chip off due to the lack of chemical adhesion. Also would applying a primer help with the adhesion of the gel coat?

 

[Avocet]

What's the problem with the hull as it is? Are you talking about above the waterline, below it, or both? Painting with epoxy isn't advised above the waterline. Iit has poor resistance to ultraviolet, so if you use epoxy (as I did on Avocet) you'll still have to paint as well. Has your existing gelcoat actually failed? (in other words, is it cracked, flaking off, etc) or just gone dull?

 

[Otter]

The 27ft Macwester is a great boat, sails quite well unlike its brick of a 26ft sister, nice lot of room inside and safe as houses. You could paint the hull above the waterline with Toplac paint, nice finish and will last for years. It's single pack and pretty tough. Below the waterline it's just anti fouling paint. Get the rigging, sea clocks and hoses checked and have some fun.

 

[coopec]

Painting with epoxy isn't advised above the waterline. Iit has poor resistance to ultraviolet, so if you use epoxy (as I did on Avocet) you'll still have to paint as well.

Well, nice to have confirmation that my brain is still functioning!! I thought I remembered that epoxy is not for use on deck because of UV. The only thing I would add to what Avocet and Lazy Kipper have to say is to make sure you sand the existing gelcoat with (say) 120 -240 grit sandpaper to provide a good key for the finish coat otherwise the paint will flake off in a few years.

 

[nickypea]

Hi, thank you for your response, I don't mean epoxy but two pac paint instead. Has any one heard of people painting there boat in gellcoat/flowcoat? In response to lazy kipper all seacocks which are below waterline have been upgraded to de- zinced sea cocks and skin fittings. I'm up rating the rigging to 4 mm (3mm at the mo, good for cutting cheese but a bit small for sailing!) and all hoses for the plumbing and engine are new ish. God love beaulieu boat jumble. In response to avocet the best way to describe the state of the cockpit is that some one had used it as a shooting range to test there Tommy gun! So a lot of redundant holes and for the rest of her there is a lot of corners which have broken off (its as so the glass fiber didn't quite get into their corners to support the gellcoat) and deep scratches so I need to re-paint rather than trying to restore the gellcoat. Also does anybody rate the swagless compression terminals instead of the swaged ones? I bought 10 4mm compresion fittings for £30 from beulieu.

 

[C08]

Two Points:-
It is very easy with a new boat to set off in a rush and do an enormous amount of work that does not really make sense and then to find that there are things that really need doing and you have spent all your time and budget doing something that was not essential. It is probably best to tidy and clean up the boat, sail it and get to know it and then make your plan of action-doing things that are rewarding and necesary.
The rigging I think should be 5mm-it certainly was on my Mac 26. I would be very concerned if it was only 4mm which I am sure is wrong for a heavy boat like a 27. Unless you are mechanically experienced at things like that I would be wary of doing your own swageless ends. It is a DIY job but only for people who have a certain skill level with tools and appreciate the correct torque to use.
Good luck with your boat but do not fall into the trap of spending a lot of time doing things before you use her. Just get things safe and sound, make sure you have appropriate safetry gear and...go sailing.

 

[ronmarson]

Two Points:-
It is very easy with a new boat to set off in a rush and do an enormous amount of work that does not really make sense and then to find that there are things that really need doing and you have spent all your time and budget doing something that was not essential. It is probably best to tidy and clean up the boat, sail it and get to know it and then make your plan of action-doing things that are rewarding and necesary.
The rigging I think should be 5mm-it certainly was on my Mac 26. I would be very concerned if it was only 4mm which I am sure is wrong for a heavy boat like a 27. Unless you are mechanically experienced at things like that I would be wary of doing your own swageless ends. It is a DIY job but only for people who have a certain skill level with tools and appreciate the correct torque to use.
Good luck with your boat but do not fall into the trap of spending a lot of time doing things before you use her. Just get things safe and sound, make sure you have appropriate safetry gear and...go sailing.

Like he said.
It's at least 5 mm. rigging.
Don't try for a perfect boat, clean it up as best you can, go sailing and then decide what really wants doing.
Swageless fittings are not that difficult, just fussy. And you need the proper Locktite cleaner and glue.
Enjoy, it's a big lump of a boat for a family.
Capt. RoN

 

[nickypea]

Hi, the forward and aft stays are 6 mm 19x7 wire but the six port and starboard stays (3 each) are 3mm so I was up rating these on recommendation from the survey. I would of loved to off kept all the deck fittings on and just re painted the non slip and cut out the rotting wood and get her on the water but my grandad had cut out half of the cockpit to remove the enoumouse engine and he removed all of the stantions to save the tarpaulins whilst she is hi and dry. So there wasn't a huge amount to do to strip the deck of all of the fittings, hence as I am at it I am going to re paint then seal every thing back on and maybe for once actually have a leak free boat! (I can only dream at the mo). Just for the record I have restored a 30ft moody and a mahogany klinker hulled launch in the past and I am a trained joiner/cabinet masker so I hopefully have all the tools and hopefully 50% of the knolege. I have been sailing all my life so hopefully (with help from you lot on this forum) I may have a chance of getting the old girl on the water before the kids are too big.

 

[James W]

It sounds like you have the skills so good luck!

The guys are right though, the sooner you can go sailing, the sooner you'll find out all the things that really need doing. Above all else, have fun!

 

[oldsaltoz]

+ 1 to get her on the water and find out what really needs attention.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[Avocet]

Hi, thank you for your response, I don't mean epoxy but two pac paint instead. Has any one heard of people painting there boat in gellcoat/flowcoat? In response to lazy kipper all seacocks which are below waterline have been upgraded to de- zinced sea cocks and skin fittings. I'm up rating the rigging to 4 mm (3mm at the mo, good for cutting cheese but a bit small for sailing!) and all hoses for the plumbing and engine are new ish. God love beaulieu boat jumble. In response to avocet the best way to describe the state of the cockpit is that some one had used it as a shooting range to test there Tommy gun! So a lot of redundant holes and for the rest of her there is a lot of corners which have broken off (its as so the glass fiber didn't quite get into their corners to support the gellcoat) and deep scratches so I need to re-paint rather than trying to restore the gellcoat. Also does anybody rate the swagless compression terminals instead of the swaged ones? I bought 10 4mm compresion fittings for £30 from beulieu.

Yes, people have ground the gelcoat off and put new gelcoat on with a roller, but it's not for the faint-hearted! It is an IMMENSE amount of work to do well. I don't think anyone has put new gelcoat on to old gelcoat - to be honest, I'm not sure it would stick very well. The other two alternatives are grinding the gelcoat off and replacing it with a mixture of epoxy and microballoons, or sanding the existing gelcoat and painting.

Ably coached by Oldsaltoz, I went for replacing it with epoxy. That sticks like nothing on earth and is more resistant to water, but it took a hell of a long time. Afterwards, I painted with 2-pack. Not sure I'd do it again though. Really serious amount of work. I didn't have much choice because the original gelcoat was failing (cracked all over and coming off in a few places). The other option is to sand the hull, as Coopec says, and paint with 2-pack. If you have many deep gouges, you might want to fill them first and then prime the hull with a high-build epoxy primer first. 2-pack is hard to use. You need a warm, dry day or two. Spraying is difficult without proper breathing equipment, as it's very nasty for you. Roller and brush have been known to give good results, but not as good as a good spray job.

Your cockpit sounds like Avocet's once was. This might be heresy to some, but I filled the various bashes, gouges and redundant holes in our cockpit and then painted it with grey Gelshield! If you use a roller, it covers extremely well and you end up with a fairly attractive mottled (slightly non-slip) finish. Gelshield (like all epoxies) isn't great in sunlight, but I found it lasted a good 10 years up this far North, and it's easy to put another coat on.

 

[William_H]

I would never use a gel coat as a repair. It is just polyester resin which is not a great adhesive. It is good for the original build in that it adhers to the subsequent layers of polyester resin while it is still chemcially joining to the GRP but not good as a paint on an old boat. Best IMHO is 2 pack polyurethane paint. Another resin type system but with very good UV ressitance and adhesion. I have not had experience with the one pack paints but believe they give a great gloss and long life. My little boat gets a lot of use and so a lot of scratches and bangs. I find it easy to touch up with 2 pack polyurethane paint. It would look a lot better if it was sprayed on but as said this needs positive breathing apparatus as spray is very deadly. Brushed on looks good froma distance.
I would not go to the trouble of removing deck fixtures unless you have leaks etc. As said just get the boat useable then use it. Miantenance even a paint job can be an incremental project. A do it all now policy is very dangerous. (risk of never finishing) good luck olewill

 

[srm]

Have re-rigged two boats, rigged one from new, and helped a boatbuilder rig a new boat. In all but one case we had wire made up slightly over length with swaged top terminals. Then stepped the mast with temporary support from halyards etc, measured and cut wires to length, fitted noreseman or sta-lock terminals. The exception; I bought a coil of wire and fitted Norsemans to both ends. Took the exception, a 42 ft steel sloop, north of the arctic circle so no worries about using Norseman terminals.
Easy to do if you take care and follow the instructions to the letter. Working with 7 and 8 mm wire I found a portable vise mounted on a short board to hold the terminal made life a lot easier.

 

[nickypea]

I would never use a gel coat as a repair. It is just polyester resin which is not a great adhesive. It is good for the original build in that it adhers to the subsequent layers of polyester resin while it is still chemcially joining to the GRP but not good as a paint on an old boat. Best IMHO is 2 pack polyurethane paint. Another resin type system but with very good UV ressitance and adhesion. I have not had experience with the one pack paints but believe they give a great gloss and long life. My little boat gets a lot of use and so a lot of scratches and bangs. I find it easy to touch up with 2 pack polyurethane paint. It would look a lot better if it was sprayed on but as said this needs positive breathing apparatus as spray is very deadly. Brushed on looks good froma distance.
I would not go to the trouble of removing deck fixtures unless you have leaks etc. As said just get the boat useable then use it. Miantenance even a paint job can be an incremental project. A do it all now policy is very dangerous. (risk of never finishing) good luck olewill

Would applying a primer first help with the adhesion of the flowcoat? Most of the deck fittings need grit blasting and repainting (my wife works for a grit blaster so nice and cheap) or replacing so I have taken them all off already. I was thinking of spraying which ever system I use as I spray a lot of finishes on my joinery/cabinet products so hopefully won't make an awful mess of it.