Time to be somewhat -

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I suppose what I am trying to say is if anyone has a requirement, idea, or whatever, then a suggested practical suggestion for a solution should be part of that post. That way perhaps, EA might listen.
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One issue being we don't know much about what they could manage if they wanted to, because what they want to do is perceived to be a little blurred. The dredging one is a good case in point. We know that general dredging is not possible, but is spot dredging of reported silting possible? Is is reasonable to expect moorings to be dredged to conform to the stated draught limitations in the same reach? Are EA even predisposed to attend to objects struck in defined narrow channels?

The point I am (badly) trying to make is that wants and possible solutions to those wants are always going to be resource based and all we know of EA resources is they seem to dun us for a lot of money yearly:-)
 
Andrew_Fanner said:
One issue being we don't know much about what they could manage if they wanted to, because what they want to do is perceived to be a little blurred. The dredging one is a good case in point. We know that general dredging is not possible, but is spot dredging of reported silting possible? Is is reasonable to expect moorings to be dredged to conform to the stated draught limitations in the same reach? Are EA even predisposed to attend to objects struck in defined narrow channels?
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I am currently trying to draft a 'manifesto' which will attempt to define and prioritise the key issues as most of us see them.

The Customer Charter sets out quite clearly what the EA thinks it should do and its actually quite useful as a starting point.

For instance the stretch from Reading to Windsor they state to be suitable for vessels with a maximum draft of 1.3 metres so if someone with a draft of 1.3 or less reports a grounding or other obstruction IN THE FAIRWAY I believe it is quite reasonable for us to expect them to take action as a matter of high priority. (The recent issue in Cookham lock cut was a case in question).

On the other hand, they make no promises about depths alongside moorings so that becomes a more difficult issue but I would expect them to take action to address any specific problems such as shopping trollies etc.

As a matter of principle it would be good if EA moorings could accommodate boats with the same maximum draft as the fairway in any particular location.
However, limitations on dredging in general, and possible issues with local conditions where dredging might de-stabilise the bank itself are clearly not going to make the ideal a reality.

As for us knowing what the EA are willing and able to do with resources I believe that should not be our concern - it is down to the EA to decide how they manage the business taking into account all the various demands placed on them.

I am, therefore, taking the view that WE need to make it quite clear what we reasonably expect and do our best to make sure they respond.
 
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I'm genuinely interested in anything to do with facilities on the Thames as I'm going to be using them very soon.
It will be interesting to see what's changed since I was last there.
And by gobbie newbie I mean If I'm paying the EA my hard earned to use the river then I'm not going to be the chufftest bunny if I trash a pair of props on unmarked shallows or have to s**t in a bucket.:D

N
 
Locks and facilities.

1. Water.

All locks to have METERED water supply with payment card. timer to allow a certain volume for free.

2. Rubbish disposal. Every third lock layby to have small dumb barges with refuse separation/recycling facilities, a bit like the one at Shipwreck Lock, which is my favourite rubbish bin on the river because the river is used as the transport route for emptying it.

3. Sewage. All dumb barges as above to have a holding tank and a METERED pump-out facility. Metering would work on volume on waste product passed into storage tank before charging commences thus allowing people to empty porta-potti and elsan without being charged.

Collection of dumb barges would be part of the navigation officers' job as they already drive around in boats which are perfectly capable of towing small barges and they often don't look like they have enough work to do :)

4. Electric points. 2 electric points at any lock where they could be positioned such that any vessel of reasonable size using them will not obstruct through-traffic. Payment card.

5. Resident Lock keepers. To be in charge of their own sites, responsible for maintenance and organisation of all aspects of the lock and the services and maintenance of the weir(s) on a day to day basis. Extra reponsibility would result in higher pay. The lock keepers are the most useful people on the river.
 
Why do you think that the EA should provide for all these extras?

Rubbish - the legislation is fundamentally weighted towards the producer disposing of their own waste. The EA only provide bins to stop ignorant people dumping it in the river.

Pump outs - it is horrendously expensive to dispose of liquid waste why can't you use the commercial pump out stations?

Electric Points - come on free electricity? Every marina in the world requires a fixed payment in addition to the rather large mooring fee.

Resident Lock Keepers? Come on. Every lock keeper has the complete set of skills to deliver gardening, lock maintenance, weir balancing, enforcement? I think not. Sure a lot of them have the skills but very few have a full set.

I suppose it all come down to what you expect your navigation licence to cover.

Just navigation or navigation and marina style facilities?????

Given the current discussions about the EA navigation role transferring/stopping, it's highly likely we are going see all the "marina style" facilities stopping and the commercial marinas being left to take up the slack on a canal type basis.

I saw count your chickens whilst the Grant in Aid funding is still available!!:(
 
CJL said:
Why do you think that the EA should provide for all these extras?

Rubbish - the legislation is fundamentally weighted towards the producer disposing of their own waste. The EA only provide bins to stop ignorant people dumping it in the river.

Pump outs - it is horrendously expensive to dispose of liquid waste why can't you use the commercial pump out stations?

Electric Points - come on free electricity? Every marina in the world requires a fixed payment in addition to the rather large mooring fee.

Resident Lock Keepers? Come on. Every lock keeper has the complete set of skills to deliver gardening, lock maintenance, weir balancing, enforcement? I think not. Sure a lot of them have the skills but very few have a full set.

I suppose it all come down to what you expect your navigation licence to cover.

Just navigation or navigation and marina style facilities?????

Given the current discussions about the EA navigation role transferring/stopping, it's highly likely we are going see all the "marina style" facilities stopping and the commercial marinas being left to take up the slack on a canal type basis.

I saw count your chickens whilst the Grant in Aid funding is still available!!:(
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How helpful another doom and gloom post!
Why should't we expect "facilities" to be available - we pay our fees to the EA and they are responsible for the upkeep the river etc.
If they can't supply what they have undertaken to then give the job back to someone who can, dont just make excuses for a poor service.
I would expect many lock keepers to be somewhat upset by the implication that they are incapable of learning a few extra skills if necessary.
I'm not saying it's even possible to fix all the inherent problems on the Thames but surely more "positive" thinking would help.
 
NeilT said:
How helpful another doom and gloom post!
Why should't we expect "facilities" to be available - we pay our fees to the EA and they are responsible for the upkeep the river etc.
If they can't supply what they have undertaken to then give the job back to someone who can, dont just make excuses for a poor service.
I would expect many lock keepers to be somewhat upset by the implication that they are incapable of learning a few extra skills if necessary.
I'm not saying it's even possible to fix all the inherent problems on the Thames but surely more "positive" thinking would help.
Click to expand...

Q - Why shouldn't you expect facilities?
A - Because you don't pay for them!!

If in times of austerity you can't expect the EA to continue to shell out because joe public wants to save money. The EA is supposed to be saving it's own money remember?

I agree if they can't supply what they've agreed due to cut backs then they need to get the message out there and make people aware of this. However it's clear that some people have very high, almost unrealistic expectations of the EA's Thames Navigation role and confuse it with its Recreation role which is a very very small national pot.

I am not being disparaging towards the lock keepers, just realistic. Training costs money and there isn't any in the pot. So the bottom line is you can't train the lock keepers.

C
 
I have to say , in the Agencies defence , they don't shy away from training us. We all do a lot of courses. Mainly in the winter , because the locks are quieter and it is easier to leave locks unmanned while we are away training.

I would say that all the lock staff have a pretty good skill set to be honest.

We do the gardening , the painting , general light maintenance , we are all trained in weir operation and response ( many for several different sites ) , we are all PACE trained in order to be able to issue unregistered reports ( we aren't trained in the use of radar guns , or a few other things but some technical officers are ) .

Certainly at Teddington we are all computer literate as well , we manage the river conditions website from our end following consultation with the technical officers ( who gather the levels AM and PM ) .

We have all done the RYA Inland Waterways Boat Handling course ( although many lock-staff have been boating for many decades themselves anyway , i have certainly been around boats for the last 25 years ) , we have basic electrical qualifications , we have all done a fire safety / fighting course , lifejacket operation and maintenance course amongst others , i've even done a 'Welcome Host' course ... i could communicate with you in basic sign language if required , all courtesy of the Agency ... although i am a bit rusty as i haven't had cause to use it yet ....... i have a drawer full of basic qualifications that the Agency has put me through.

I'm not trying to blow our trumpets here , just to try and get the point across that the lock staff aren't the untrained / untrainable idiots some members of the public take us for , and to dispel the myth that the Agency is shy of training us . Whatever faults the Agency has , and it has a few , granted , a lack of staff training isn't one of them.
 
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I'm not trying to blow our trumpets here , just to try and get the point across that the lock staff aren't the untrained / untrainable idiots some members of the public take us for , and to dispel the myth that the Agency is shy of training us . Whatever faults the Agency has , and it has a few , granted , a lack of staff training isn't one of them.
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My first ever experience of a Thames lock keeper gave me to understand they knew a lot about anything boat related. The chap advsed where to find a free mooring in Henley AND recommended several public houses. Can't go wrong there!
 
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