Time for some seabed love...

If the N Sea and channel had been so completely destroyed there would have been no reason for the network of MCZs now being proposed, nor would there be any of the planned SACs. MCZs and SACs etc are not a damage limitation exercise, they catalogue what is there; many of the areas havie been assessed as 'requiring no further action' to preserve them. The purpose in each case is to ensure that they remain unspoiled into the 21st century, and support those areas where there is more pressure on the wildlife.

Saying it is 'all destroyed' is exactly the kind of emotive crowd pulling sweeping statement that does the whole conservation cause so much harm, and raises so many hackles amongst those of us who actually KNOW what is out there, Chris Packham et al PLEASE NOTE!
 
Haven't seen all Britain shores yet, but plan to. Nor am I saying "completely destroyed", though doubt there is really a place not affected yet... comment comes from national parks conservationist - so it may be I'm biased, please note... :o
 
Rossynant said:
Haven't seen all Britain shores yet, but plan to. Nor am I saying "completely destroyed", though doubt there is really a place not affected yet... comment comes from national parks conservationist - so it may be I'm biased, please note... :o
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Not biased, just misinformed.
 
I agree, misinformed; it would be helpful for all concerned if you had a look first Rossynant, 'doubt there is really a place not affected yet' doesn't apply to leisure boats or even commercial fishing, but it could be said to apply to the attentions of career conservationists seeking an excuse for their existence !
 
Seajet said:
I agree, misinformed; it would be helpful for all concerned if you had a look first Rossynant, 'doubt there is really a place not affected yet' doesn't apply to leisure boats or even commercial fishing, but it could be said to apply to the attentions of career conservationists seeking an excuse for their existence !
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Who says 'bout leisure boats? Not me. Impact of sailors is nothing compared to fishing or industrial pollutions.

To be misinformed I would first need some information at all :) Had some, but long ago and forgotten mostly.
What I say is just my personal impression - did take a look albeit not much. Based in Pembrokeshire lately, been also in Firth of Forth. And other North Sea areas on other side, but this is no concern of UK conservationists.

If you are afraid of a comment, on forum from some foreigner, having much attention from local conservationist - while you have your own competent scientists making research in place, well... yessss, now I do see a problem ;)
Maybe some moderator better delete my posts? :confused:
 
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Rossynant said:
Who says 'bout leisure boats? Not me. Impact of sailors is nothing compared to fishing or industrial pollutions; unless there is some specific reason at particular area.
To be misinformed I would first need some information at all :) Had some, but long ago and forgotten mostly.
What I say is just my personal impression - did take a look albeit not much. Based in Pembrokeshire lately, been also in Firth of Forth. And other North Sea areas on other side, but this is no concern of UK conservationists.

If you are afraid of a comment, on forum from some foreigner, having much attention from local conservationist - while you have your own competent scientists making research in place, well... yessss, now I do see a problem ;)
Maybe some moderator better delete my posts? :confused:
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Trouble is in this country that the conservation lobby, often taxpayer funded, claim to be the only scientific experts; it goes with the science if it supports the conservation case but appeals to emotion and demands that the science be discarded where it doesn't. They also have the ear of opinion formers in the media, and exploit this to get their skewed views across. Other European countries seem to have a more measured approach to conservation, shared by "professionals" and media alike.
 
You don't say... Think here is different? What we had with such 'activists' here... Lot's of effort lost just to prevent them torpedoing real nature protection.

Well, ecology is a science, and one of more difficult. Those who have problems understanding high mathematics, physics, molecular biochemistry and so on will never get the slightest idea; but they may learn Law or Journalism and there you have it.
But it's your democratic vote :p

And in case someone again will say I'm misinformed: sailed with local Greenpeace Chairman in same club... ;)
 
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Rossynant said:
Well, ecology is a science, and one of more difficult. Those who have problems understanding high mathematics, physics, molecular biochemistry and so on will never get the slightest idea;
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I think that's complete rubbish.I spent my early years exploring nature & marvelling in everything I found.It has now become the most interesting passion in my life.All you need is an enquiring mind & to try & understand what is going on all around you.I doubt Darwin had a tenth of the fancy qualification our modern bunch of career conservationist wrap themselves in but he still managed to acquire an acute understanding.
Some of our present 'experts' could do with a bit of practical down to earth common sense!
 
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No wild boar in the UK? Really:

http://www.britishwildboar.org.uk/

And there are plenty of wild deer roaming. Anyone living in rural areas should not be surprised to catch a deer in their headlights at night. Many of us unintentionally have hit one as it ran out or in my case leapt over a hedge into the side of my car.

Rossynant. What you must also remember is that wolves, boars, elk and other roaming wild animals can easily cross into your country from many other less populated countries. There is s very big one not to far to you East.;) We as an island make it a little more difficult for them.

Here without to much research is some stats on forests

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-8xfcwy
 
galadriel said:
No wild boar in the UK? Really:

http://www.britishwildboar.org.uk/

And there are plenty of wild deer roaming. Anyone living in rural areas should not be surprised to catch a deer in their headlights at night. Many of us unintentionally have hit one as it ran out or in my case leapt over a hedge into the side of my car.

Rossynant. What you must also remember is that wolves, boars, elk and other roaming wild animals can easily cross into your country from many other less populated countries. There is s very big one not to far to you East.;) We as an island make it a little more difficult for them.

Here without to much research is some stats on forests

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-8xfcwy
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Saw a boar about a mile from our home a few years ago, one of the ones "liberated" from a farm near South Molton. They made a real mess of the hallowed turf of the Dartmoor National Park, but the eco fanatics didn't mind. On the other hand, if bikers had done it, they'd have been all in favour of a cull.....
 
Rossynant said:
And in case someone again will say I'm misinformed: sailed with local Greenpeace Chairman in same club... ;)
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oldharry said:
Q.E.D.
There's a Brain Surgeon in my club....
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:D
Perhaps I've not made myself clear - sorry, foreign language :o - mean I know how "green activists" think, or how much they know...
Quite a problem, indeed.
One thing is to have practical understanding, or insight in real world, from working out there in the field, not in nice city office. But then to do something of real use for environment quite a lot of education is necessary, coupled with precise data, since those are complicated systems, escaping the 'intuitive' thinking or what may be named "common sense" - another thing most journalists etc are lacking.
There are experts in the field, but they are occupied with the job, not with internet discussions (I'm long retired in case someone should think something :cool: )

galadriel said:
No wild boar in the UK? Really
Rossynant. What you must also remember is that wolves, boars, elk and other roaming wild animals can easily cross into your country from many other less populated countries. There is s very big one not to far to you East.;)
We as an island make it a little more difficult for them.
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Thought this is about seabed? Guess for this UK have no isolation problem.
To drift the thread a bit: with our animals here it's most often the other way around. We had a tradition of nature protection in Poland, dating to medieval ages; some species were saved here, while went extinct elsewhere around. Such as best known tarpan or wisent.
Time past was acquainted with restitution projects, also for UK - after all some wild animals living now in the West were sent from us. Those boars included :) We are still exporting them, specially raised for living in the wild.
 
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"Thought this is about seabed? Guess for this UK have no isolation problem. "

Indeed, thread drift happens a lot and it is something which I dont like to see. However, the person who starts the thread drift should always take the responsibility for it. May I refer you to your posts 11 and 13.;)

Now lets get back to the fish shall we?
 
galadriel said:
Now lets get back to the fish shall we?
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Well, the career conservationists also chip in as an excuse for their highly funded luxury lifestyle that global warming has encouraged Great White sharks to Cornwall, and quite seriously I and a crew saw if not a Great White then the worlds' largest Tiger off Salcombe; one can only hope the conservationists get a really good close up view...:)
 
Seajet said:
Well, the career conservationists also chip in as an excuse for their highly funded luxury lifestyle that global warming has encouraged Great White sharks to Cornwall, and quite seriously I and a crew saw if not a Great White then the worlds' largest Tiger off Salcombe; one can only hope the conservationists get a really good close up view...:)
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I think you'll find that it was a basking shark. Tiger sharks don't come anywhere near us they are a warm water species.

Baskings are common off the coast of the West Country, we once saw 3 in a quick succession whilst on a trip from Plymouth to Salcombe.
 
ChrisE said:
I think you'll find that it was a basking shark. Tiger sharks don't come anywhere near us they are a warm water species.

Baskings are common off the coast of the West Country, we once saw 3 in a quick succession whilst on a trip from Plymouth to Salcombe.
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Jesus H Christ !

I've seen many a basking shark thanks, they usually travel in groups and there were plenty out this day in summer 1989.

We had come across from Gurnsey to Salcombe, seen a fair few basking sharks and gone respectfully close, they just acted like cows and trudged along.

It was a flat calm and we were motoring in the Carter 30 I had then.

Then I spotted a big fin moving altogether differently, much more sinuous and purposeful.

We went over to it, and it was as big as a basking shark, but much more intent; it dived roughly 2' underwater and came in on us, ending parallel to the boat.

We were both stone cold sobre and don't do drugs; we reckoned this thing well over half the length of the 30' boat.

It seemed to have vertical stripes but that may have been sunlight through the water.

It was looking at us, and I called to my chum on the foredeck, ' for Christs' sake keep a hold on '.

I got the impression it was quite malevolant, and gently eased the boat away, careful not to get the prop' anywhere near; I suspected it had been hassled by fishermen earlier and didn't like the sound of our diesel...

Local fishermen have reported this sort of sighting now and again, I've seen the usual Thresher & Blue sharks in West Country waters - and they're reported in the Solent - but this one was a Big, Snotty attitude, Real Shark.

I often talk of it with my crew to this day, he agrees.
 
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Calm down dear, it's only an advert.

But please get a sense of proportion, it could be a great white although as far as I'm aware there are no instances of great whites in The Channel, but it certainly wasn't a tiger they've never been seen any where near here, they are creatures of warm seas.

It could have been a big porbeagle, there are plenty of them around the coast or at a stretch a mako, although they are few and far between.
 
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hi seajet---had a similar experience off jersey --saw a large fin ahead and motored alongside---shark submerged about 6 feet and came up on the otherside---then down and back under boat again--- did this for 2 or 3 minutes while i motored slowly----i was in a 12 and a 1/2 foot boat and it was a lot longer---i reckon about 14 feet----back on land i borrowed a british shark book but i seemed too big to be anything in the book----was it a great white ----i don t know and i don t care----it was huge and magnificent and i was lucky to see it-----regards lenten
 
Well, dear, ask local pro fishermen; and I'm sure Tigers have been spotted, while rumours of Great Whites persist, after all they've managed it to the Med'.

I'm not all that worried about sharks either, if I fall in or end in a liferaft I'll take my chances but it's their environment.

I rather take the ' protected species ' point of view, and would cheerfully shoot or ram any lowlife going for their fins.
 
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