tiller pilots.

[silverdawn]

Hi, I have a finesse 24 sloop displacement about 3000kgs with bad weather helm which causes the boat to round up into the wind, i think the weather helm can be improved , but i want to fit a tiller pilot capable of coping with the displacement and weather helm.
Are there any finesse owners past or present who have fitted a tiller pilot and how sucessful was it, your early replies would be welcome, iam going to the boat show next week and hope to get one there.

 

[tillergirl]

Have you tried asking finesseowners@yahoogroups.co.uk

 

[William_H]

Despite what the theory says my experience is that weather helm largely comes from overpowered boat ie from heeling. The fix is to reduce sail especially the jib size. (contrary to theory of centre of pressure)
Anyway other fixes might involve adding rudder balance ie area ahead of the pintles or shaft. If a tiller pilot can't manage the helm then you must be struggling pretty hard to sail it. good luck olewill

 

[Guest]

I have bad weather helm and have to ease off significantly to get the tiller-pilot to cope. I have 2 TP's ..... an 800 and a 1000 .... (numbers are based on boat length ... 800 = up to 8m, 1000 = up to 10m).
It is well advised to try and reduce the weather-helm as no TP is designed to carry such strain continuously ....

With a Finesse, I assume you have the long-keel version ? Then reduction of both fore and main sails ...... or slacking sheets will help, but raking mast forward by use of forestay and afts is more permanent action.... (I assume also that you have the traditional mast fixture of the large side cheeks and two through bolts ? which unlike the blade fitting does not allow bolting the mast more forward).

For the Finesse similar TP's to what I have should be sufficient ... or their later models.

 

[AndyL]

Re: tiller pilots. tip of the day

I use some shockcord on the end of the tiller to carry the load so that the tiller pilot only needs to hold the course. The shockcord runs round a stanchion and back to a small jamb cleat so it is easily adjusted.

 

[wooslehunter]

I'm not familiar with the boat so may get shot down in flames. However, any boat sailed with lots of weather or lee helm has to be out of balance. If you need the rudder hard over, it's only acting as a brake. So checking the mast rake is a must. However, with serious weather helm, I'd suspect the sails are out of balance.

If there's too much sail up front, the boat will tend to have a lee helm and visa versa. However, whats important is that the underwater hull shape will change as the boat heels over - that's unless it's a perfect cylinder. Hence, if the boat is balanced in a force 2, increase the wind to force 4, and the boat heels over. The underwater hull shape will change and the boat will develop weather helm. To balance the boat you need to reduce sail area aft. i.e. reef the main. I'm not sure I understand why reducing the sail area up fron will do any good, other than to reduce power and therefore reduce heel angle, reducing the weather helm.

When I used to teach dinghy sailing, one great excercise for the more advanced courses was to take the rudder off. Initially everyone went round in circles until they learned to balance sails and heel angle. I good dinghy sailor will steer the boat with heel angle and only correct with rudder (brake).

I have a mast head rigged bilge keel boat. As the wind increases, I start to reef the main. If I need to reef further, I double reef the main and reef the genny etc. Hence I can hold a reasonable heel angle and still remain balanced. The boat will sail itself - round up a little in the gusts and bear away in the lulls. I do have to be careful though since too much of a lull will cause the boat to bear away too far. This is where the auto-pilot (or me) comes in.

On the subject of tiller pilots, if the boat is balanced, it will need little force on the tiller to correct only. I have an old ST800 which died soon after getting the boat. I replaced it with an ST2000+. The reason was that the 2000 has a far better drive and raster end-end time. The ST1000+ would suit your boat fine but I'd still go for the 2000+. it's overkill but should last far better. My boat also tends to roll a bit down wind. This causes it to snake when under auto-pilot. Hence the faster end-end time has helped keep it under control.

 

[mikebees]

Causes of Weather Helm

Weather helm arises from two unbalancing moments acting on the boat:-
1 A fore and aft unbalance. Looking at the yacht from the side, ie down it's pitch axis, the centre of effort(CE) is forward of the centre of lateral resistance(CLR). This results in a turning moment about a vertical axis into the wind.
2 An unbalance across the beam. Looking at the yacht from bow or stern ie along it's roll axis and supposing the yacht to be heeled by the wind, then the centre of hydrodynamic resistance(CHR) will move laterally across from the centreline to one side (the weather side), if you think about it this would normally result in lee helm but in actual fact the centre of effort shifts even more to leeward than the CHR the overall result is weather helm.
It can be seen that it therefore incorrect to state that a cylindrical hull would have no weather helm - the CHR would of course not move laterally at all but the CE would move to the lee side and give the turning moment manifesting itself in weather helm.
The positions of the two CEs, the CLR and the CHR can be altered by sail sizes, mast rake and position, movement of crew weight on the boat, the degree of heeling induced by sail trim, wind strength etc etc.
Sorrry to go on a bit but the net result of all these forces and where they are applied can be difficult to predict.
For what it's worth and IMHO heeling is usually the dominant factor. Thus decreasing the size of the foresail would reduce heeling and hence weather helm more than the increase in weather helm cased by moving the CE aft.
Others may disagree!