Tidying up visible new wiring

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cygnusv

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Hi All

I'm going to start replacing visible wiring on the boat, both 24 volt and 240 volts too. I don't want to 'nail it to bulkheads' etc. I want to place it in a small conduit that clamps to bulkheads etc so that when I paint I can pull it away from the wall or roof, paint the said wall or roof etc and clamp it back when the paints dry. I think it would look much better that painted wires.

Any ideas? the boat, although a live aboard is only 30 foot, so I don't want some heavy duty tubes, I want a 'nice' solution.

All suggestions welcome.

Stu
 
cygnusv said:
Hi All

I'm going to start replacing visible wiring on the boat, both 24 volt and 240 volts too. I don't want to 'nail it to bulkheads' etc. I want to place it in a small conduit that clamps to bulkheads etc so that when I paint I can pull it away from the wall or roof, paint the said wall or roof etc and clamp it back when the paints dry. I think it would look much better that painted wires.

Any ideas? the boat, although a live aboard is only 30 foot, so I don't want some heavy duty tubes, I want a 'nice' solution.

All suggestions welcome.

Stu
Click to expand...

The trunking and or plastic conduit avaialble from most DIY stores perhaps but better to try to hide it completely.

Dont run 12 volt and 240 volt wiring together.
 
When I rewired Kindred Spirit, I managed to hide most of the wiring behind furniture, headlining, etc. The only exception was a run of several cables across the deckhead to a gland where they exited to connect to the mast. The headlining here was a fibreglass liner solidly glued to the deck with resin, so no internal space for the wiring. I milled up what amounted to a wooden conduit, using a router and the same sapele timber as I used for various other bits of interior trim, so it all matched. Several coats of danish oil rubbed in and I think the result looked pretty good.

Pete
 
My boat had used this stuff and plastic P brackets in black.

ml_iGQ8kn52ic3Ess-qMFQg.jpg


When I wanted some more I bought enough to do 6 boats for a tenner...

Can be reused easily changes sizes when wires come in and out, not that hard to undo to add more wires....
 
prv said:
When I rewired Kindred Spirit, I managed to hide most of the wiring behind furniture, headlining, etc. The only exception was a run of several cables across the deckhead to a gland where they exited to connect to the mast. The headlining here was a fibreglass liner solidly glued to the deck with resin, so no internal space for the wiring. I milled up what amounted to a wooden conduit, using a router and the same sapele timber as I used for various other bits of interior trim, so it all matched. Several coats of danish oil rubbed in and I think the result looked pretty good.

Pete
Click to expand...

Got a pic? Our boat was launched on the Thames in 1951, and there are no head linings to hide behind. There are units across the decks that could be used to hide horizontal wires (If I was brave enough to get into THAT bag of worm), but the vertical wiring is there for all to see. No, I want some king of discreet trunking - maybe timber is a possible. Thanx
 
cygnusv said:
Got a pic? Our boat was launched on the Thames in 1951, and there are no head linings to hide behind. There are units across the decks that could be used to hide horizontal wires (If I was brave enough to get into THAT bag of worm), but the vertical wiring is there for all to see. No, I want some king of discreet trunking - maybe timber is a possible. Thanx
Click to expand...

I have used wood capping on occasion where appropriate to the job, last lot I got was from Wickes I think.
 
cygnusv said:
Got a pic?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not - I've just looked, but it's not quite visible in the one I thought it would be. We sold the boat a couple of weeks ago, so none in future either!

Not complicated, basically just a narrow plank of sapele about 3/4" thick, with the outer corners rounded over with the appropriate router cutter. Then most of the inside of the plank hollowed out with a normal straight cutter. I didn't do anything clever with the screws, just put dirty great stainless pan-heads through the middle of it, making sure they passed between the wires inside - this allows it to be easily removed to add new wiring. There would be scope for neater fixing if desired.

I had a couple of mitred corners to do where it crossed under the side deck, went up the side of the cabin top, then across the deckhead - these were a bit fiddly and one in particular was not a very close fit, so I inserted a piece of scrap sapele into the gap once installed and trimmed and sanded it to match the profile. If you just have to go up a vertical cabin side then it will be a doddle by comparison.

Pete
 
Keith-i said:
Why not? You're not likely to be using both simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Cable capacitance is one massive reason. You really don't want a stray induced moderate voltage AC current suddenly appearing all over your 12v DC system. Also cables can abrade and short out one to the other. Therefore keep 240v not only separate but in double insulated wire cables.
 
Keith-i said:
Why not? You're not likely to be using both simultaneously.
Click to expand...

O yes you are.
When connected to mains supply you are likely to be using 240 volts to run the battery charger and some mains voltage equipment, such as an electric kettle, fan heater, water heater etc. You will also be using 12 volt lighting circuits and other 12 volt equipment such as radios (leisure or comms).
 
Keith-i said:
Why not? You're not likely to be using both simultaneously.
Click to expand...

?

You don't turn the lights on when you spend the night in a marina plugged in to shore power, then?

Anyway, regardless of whether things are turned on at the same time or not, 12v devices are not designed explicitly to prevent contact with live parts. Indeed I have some light fittings in which the metal body of the fitting carries the current to the bulb. At 12v it doesn't matter, but if my whole 12v system got energised to 240v because someone put the cables in the same conduit and they shorted together then it would suddenly matter a great deal. I've had shorts occur between 12v cables, no reason the same couldn't happen with 240 if they were side by side.

It would be illegal (or at least against the wiring regs; I'm not sure exactly what the legal situation is) to do it in your house, and wiring gets harsher treatment on a boat.

Pete
 
prv said:
?

It would be illegal (or at least against the wiring regs; I'm not sure exactly what the legal situation is) to do it in your house, and wiring gets harsher treatment on a boat.

Pete
Click to expand...

Ditto on a boat, you can't have them close unless one is in a seperate conduit or seperated by 4"
 
superheat6k said:
Cable capacitance is one massive reason. You really don't want a stray induced moderate voltage AC current suddenly appearing all over your 12v DC system. Also cables can abrade and short out one to the other. Therefore keep 240v not only separate but in double insulated wire cables.
Click to expand...

Can they run alongside, next to each other, in two separate conduits? I'm refitting my interior, and want to route all the wiring through the same spaces where possible...
 
Fitzroy said:
Can they run alongside, next to each other, in two separate conduits?
Click to expand...

Yes, actually only one (preferaby the low voltage AC) needs to be in conduit.

For the avoidance of doubt.

An a.c. circuit shall not be contained in the same wiring system as a d.c. circuit, unless one of the following
methods of separation is used:
a) for a multicore cable or cord, the cores of the a.c. circuit are separated from the cores of the d.c. circuit by
an earthed metal screen of equivalent amperage rating to that of the largest core of the a.c. circuit;
b) the cables are insulated for their system voltage and installed in a separate compartment of a cable
ducting or trunking system;
c) the cables are installed on a tray or ladder where physical separation is provided by a partition;
d) a separate conduit, sheath or trunking system is used;
e) the a.c. and d.c. conductors are fixed directly to a surface and separated by at least 100 mm.
 
Last edited:
prv said:
?

You don't turn the lights on when you spend the night in a marina plugged in to shore power, then?



Pete
Click to expand...
Perhaps wrongly I had assumed you we're referring to crosstalk or induced interference from 230v ac affecting sensitive data wires involved in navigation. Obviously any short between 12v & 230v could be dangerous but so too could a short wholly on the 230v side. If your earth and negative circuits are properly arranged no short should have dangerous consequences.
 
David2452 said:
Yes, actually only one (preferaby the low voltage AC) needs to be in conduit.

For the avoidance of doubt.

An a.c. circuit shall not be contained in the same wiring system as a d.c. circuit, unless one of the following
methods of separation is used:
a) for a multicore cable or cord, the cores of the a.c. circuit are separated from the cores of the d.c. circuit by
an earthed metal screen of equivalent amperage rating to that of the largest core of the a.c. circuit;
b) the cables are insulated for their system voltage and installed in a separate compartment of a cable
ducting or trunking system;
c) the cables are installed on a tray or ladder where physical separation is provided by a partition;
d) a separate conduit, sheath or trunking system is used;
e) the a.c. and d.c. conductors are fixed directly to a surface and separated by at least 100 mm.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I think two conduits running side-by-side should satisfy these requirements.

Although it's designed for inland waterways, the Boat Safety Scheme provides some helpful tips, but doesn't mention the need to separate AC and DC systems as far as I can see - https://www.waterways.org.uk/pdf/bss_guide (see p.64)
 
Fitzroy said:
Thanks for that. I think two conduits running side-by-side should satisfy these requirements.

Although it's designed for inland waterways, the Boat Safety Scheme provides some helpful tips, but doesn't mention the need to separate AC and DC systems as far as I can see - https://www.waterways.org.uk/pdf/bss_guide (see p.64)
Click to expand...

I'll take your word for it but the BSS does refer to ISO 13297 and that says what David2345 has said above.

I'd like to point out that when David refers to "low voltage AC" he does mean the mains voltage (240 volts or whatever).
 
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