Tidal Thames Advisory Speed Limit

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Rich_S

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Hi,
thought I would see what you guys think.
Travelling through London last weekend through the advisory 12 knot speed limit area (Wandsworth-Cherry Pier). Keeping to six knots, my max economical displacement speed, I saw several other boats (ribs and plod) doing more than 12. Ribs definitely, plod probably.
My boat is either 6 knots or 15+ planing.
I know this is advisory and keeping a good lookout, not causing wash that can endanger people or property etc is needed but it seems to me the limit should either be mandatory or not apply at all.
My boat is not capable of producing some of the wash I encountered.

Thoughts?

Rich.
 
Indeed.


The bast-ards made life very uncomfortable for us last year in a couple of 'high speed flypasts'

The wash their patrol boat produced was really quite something! :(
 
No Regrets said:
Indeed.


The bast-ards made life very uncomfortable for us last year in a couple of 'high speed flypasts'

The wash their patrol boat produced was really quite something! :(
Click to expand...

Turned us right onto our beam ends in the Ocean 4 years ago, SWMBO has refused to go down the tideway ever since. They are nutters with no regard for slower traffic.

I once (1972) went under Tower Bridge on the plane in a Norman 20. A RN frigate was moored up below in the lower pool and made signals for me to slow down because my wash upset them.

In a bloody great frigate for heaven's sake!

Some things do not change!
 
I was under the impression that the advisory speed limit only applied in the pool itself,
not from Wandsworth Bridge, normal wash restrictions apply everywhere. I stand by to be
firmly stamped on any time soon.
 
Challenge it

Rich_S said:
Hi,
thought I would see what you guys think.
Travelling through London last weekend through the advisory 12 knot speed limit area (Wandsworth-Cherry Pier). Keeping to six knots, my max economical displacement speed, I saw several other boats (ribs and plod) doing more than 12. Ribs definitely, plod probably.
My boat is either 6 knots or 15+ planing.
I know this is advisory and keeping a good lookout, not causing wash that can endanger people or property etc is needed but it seems to me the limit should either be mandatory or not apply at all.
My boat is not capable of producing some of the wash I encountered.

Thoughts?

Rich.
Click to expand...

Not only I do use that reach I also work next to it and walk up and down 6 miles of that stretch every day, there are loads of boat breaking the speed limit, police, PLA, the RIBS, safety boat, fire boats and large cruisers, in fact the only ones that get grief are private boat owners. i would challenge it next time, and I am more than happy to set up a web cam to prove it!
 
alruss said:
I was under the impression that the advisory speed limit only applied in the pool itself,
not from Wandsworth Bridge, normal wash restrictions apply everywhere. I stand by to be
firmly stamped on any time soon.
Click to expand...

See Port of London Authority Notice to Mariners 12 of 2009. The speed limit applies between Cherry Garden Pier and Wandsworth Bridge.
 
Web Cam

RichardShead said:
Not only I do use that reach I also work next to it and walk up and down 6 miles of that stretch every day, there are loads of boat breaking the speed limit, police, PLA, the RIBS, safety boat, fire boats and large cruisers, in fact the only ones that get grief are private boat owners. i would challenge it next time, and I am more than happy to set up a web cam to prove it!
Click to expand...

That would be great, not only to catch them at it but also for general interest!
A while back the PLA were on the local news showing off their new power cat. That looked to be breaking the limit too!

If the limit is for safety it should be mandatory, is it based on data I wonder? I know they carried out a full and detailed risk aversement (don't sue us) study.

It seems to me that this advisory would be used to increase the size of the stick to beat people with should anything go wrong but they are happy to let most non leisure users flout it. Where were the PLA when a trip boat decided to cut across my track to give his passengers a better view of the marathon on the embankment thus travelling on the left down river?

Woolly legislation!

Rich.

p.s thanks to all for all the views expressed so far..............
 
TrueBlue said:
Anybody tried calling up VTS and complaining - name and shame?
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Lots do, you always hear VTS bleating on about "Ease Down in place" here there and everywhere but no bu&&er ever seems to slow down.

I have been stold to slow down when only going 7 knots before which beggars belief when the clipper zooms past me at the same time.
 
Ch 10

I believe the police and the RIBS use Ch 10. Grandpa Byron will confirm.
I got caught in the cross wash from 2 of the RIBS shortly after they acquired them. Called them on 10 and gave them a right royal rowlocking. No apology and clearly no different behaviour.
You just try going past the police pier at Wapping with anything of a wash and see how quickly they complain!
 
ISTR some weasel words about "commercial and emergency traffic" in the original LNTMs but may well be mistaken. The Clippers will claim they have a timetable to follow, which would be fair. Its the reflected wash of a different boat to the one you were watching that is as bad, you were not so ready for it. Cuts up rough when its busy too, I've sat at The Anchor and seen a Clipper look to get it green before now.
 
NTM in Question

From the PLA Website:

Notice to Mariners
12 of 2009 Lower Pool to Wandsworth Reach - Advisory 12 Knot Speed Limit.

Over the past eighteen months the Port of London Authority has been reviewing the Port of London River Byelaws 1978 (as amended) in consultation with river users. As part of this process Byelaw 48 (Speed Limits) has been carefully re-examined and it is proposed to introduce a blanket 12 Kt speed limit between Cherry Garden Pier and Wandsworth Bridge in the new Port of London Thames Byelaws (2009).

The risks of collision or contact resulting from growing freight and passenger traffic, the increasing speed differential between different types of vessels and the major construction works in the area, requires action to be taken pending the introduction of the new Thames Byelaws.

An advisory speed limit of 12 Kt between Cherry Garden Pier and Wandsworth Bridge is therefore introduced with immediate effect.

Safety is the responsibility of all those navigating on and using the River, for whatever purpose. All mariners should recognise the significant risks that navigating in central London at high speed brings, and to act responsibly by adhering to the new advisory speed limit.

Attention is also drawn to The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (as amended) Rule 6 (Safe Speed) and the Port of London Act 108 (General rules for navigation) which provides:

A Master who navigates his vessel on the Thames:

a without due care and attention; or
b in a manner liable to injure or endanger persons, other vessels, the banks of the Thames (whether above or below mean high water level) or any structure or installation in or beside the Thames;

shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine upon conviction.

Date Published: 18-May-09


Ends

Owners, Agents and Charterers should ensure that the contents of this Notice are made known to the masters or persons in charge of their vessels or craft
 
miket said:
I believe the police and the RIBS use Ch 10. Grandpa Byron will confirm.
!
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I ain't got a clue what they use these days. I know they have their own private frequencies. The RNLI RIBS will have channel '0' whether the Police have it too I know not. Certainly the Hampshire Police Boats have it as did the now defunct Thames Valley Police Boats.

Channel '0' is from memory 156.00mhz. It was a reserved channel for RNLI and H.M.Coastguard and for anyone else to have it they needed special Home Office consent.
I still have my letter of authority somewhere but gawd knows where.
 
ianc1200 said:
In my experience the speed limits in the tideway only apply to private vessels.

IanC
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A Clipper skipper was prosecuted recently for speeding and causing problems .

I was once on a clipper very late at night possibly on the final run home, it may have been the fact it was night and difficult to gauge distances but from memory have never been faster in any boat and that includes some quick speed boats,fast ferries crossing the E.channel and between the Canaries.
 
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The worst experience I have encountered was 2 years ago when one of the fire floats was turning tight cirles off of Wapping and digging big holes. My boat stood on end as did a big Dutch motor sailor,stil dont know how it came down bottom first.
Were they giving the police a demo or were they trying to impress the party they had on board.
 
I've seen numerous examples of non private boats exceeding the limits, obviously just for fun. A good instance was coming up through the barrier, we had two police boats planing up behind us. One, a rib, with about 6 officiers on board, stopped because they had seen a football floating around. The other boat stopped as well, ball retrieved they both got up on the plane, and as we passed the Wapping station they were kicking the ball around on the pier!
The standard of helmsmanship of commercial boats (police/fire/passenger craft) between Gravesend and Wandsworth is far worse than white van drivers on the M25.

IanC
 
I wonder?

Think I heard that if the Conservatives get in they will hand more power to the Mayor of London including the PLA. Perhaps Boris could help????
Ribnet also has a long thread on this leading up to the introduction etc.

Rich
 
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