Tidal Streams in the Elbe

[Dockhead]

For the life of me, I can't find any tidal stream charts for the Elbe.

Maybe it's because the streams strictly follow the change in tide heights, so you don't need any separate tidal stream chart? It's a river, after all.

Anyone have any hints?

 

[jerrytug]

Hello Dockhead, nothing tricky except the tidal stream is strong, think twice about wind against tide conditions because on the ebb, near springs, with a strong westerly funneling up the river, the waves will be the size of houses as soon as the ebb starts.
Are you in the canal still, pull over at Brunsbuttel and get the info, lock out and take a turn on a buoy until the flood has almost stopped, then head down river. The tide will fire you out in to the N Sea like a cork from a bottle!
I am sure you will find the info anyway, have a nice one, Jerry

 

[vyv_cox]

Hello Dockhead, nothing tricky except the tidal stream is strong, think twice about wind against tide conditions because on the ebb, near springs, with a strong westerly funneling up the river, the waves will be the size of houses as soon as the ebb starts.
Are you in the canal still, pull over at Brunsbuttel and get the info, lock out and take a turn on a buoy until the flood has almost stopped, then head down river. The tide will fire you out in to the N Sea like a cork from a bottle!
I am sure you will find the info anyway, have a nice one, Jerry

+1. I thought the pilot information about not starting down-river in more than a F 4 from the NW was a bit conservative so we set off in about a F5. Out of Brunsbuttel was OK but as soon as we were off Cuxhaven all hell broke loose. We stopped there for a few days until thing calmed down a bit.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

+1. I thought the pilot information about not starting down-river in more than a F 4 from the NW was a bit conservative so we set off in about a F5. Out of Brunsbuttel was OK but as soon as we were off Cuxhaven all hell broke loose. We stopped there for a few days until thing calmed down a bit.

+1 to that, be prepared to break trip at Cuxhaven, (YC marina is good) if late locking out on the tide, even if not likely to get strong W over T- when it turns, it turns, esp on Springs. Scenery can get boring else.
German CG cutter will turn you back as a pleasure craft into Cuxhaven if conditions off Scharhoorn bad. They mean it- keep your VHF on dual watch.

 

[johnalison]

The Elbe tides are largely predictable, with a couple of exceptions. Near the entrance there is a fairly narrow section south of the buoyed channel. You should be there at or soon after the flood starts when coming from the west, and the streams tend be circular, with the occasional eddy going the wrong way. Not much of a problem but it can be puzzling before you pick up the strong current.

The flood runs past Cuzhaven and Brunsbuttel for an hour or two after HW, making progress upriver easy but down more problematic. You need to leave Cuxhaven before or at slack water to get out of the river before the flood. Cuxhaven can be quite a pleasant place to wait for a day or two and the club marina usually comfortable, though it is worth trying to find a berth well in and away from the swell of passing ships.

 

[jerrytug]

The Elbe tides are largely predictable, with a couple of exceptions. Near the entrance there is a fairly narrow section south of the buoyed channel. You should be there at or soon after the flood starts when coming from the west, and the streams tend be circular, with the occasional eddy going the wrong way. Not much of a problem but it can be puzzling before you pick up the strong current.

The flood runs past Cuzhaven and Brunsbuttel for an hour or two after HW, making progress upriver easy but down more problematic. You need to leave Cuxhaven before or at slack water to get out of the river before the flood. Cuxhaven can be quite a pleasant place to wait for a day or two and the club marina usually comfortable, though it is worth trying to find a berth well in and away from the swell of passing ships.

Yes. Do you think he could make it out of the river from Brunsbuttel on one tide, if he started out from there on the last of the flood, punching tide for an hour?
That was my thought but I could well be wrong, and perhaps he will be obliged to stop at Cuxhaven, whatever the weather?
OP is, I believe, in a 50 footer.

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Animated hourly charts here:
http://www.bsh.de/aktdat/modell/stroemungen/Modell1e.htm

 

[jerrytug]

Animated hourly charts here:
http://www.bsh.de/aktdat/modell/stroemungen/Modell1.htm

Super-geil!

 

[johnalison]

Yes. Do you think he could make it out of the river from Brunsbuttel on one tide, if he started out from there on the last of the flood, punching tide for an hour?
That was my thought but I could well be wrong, and perhaps he will be obliged to stop at Cuxhaven, whatever the weather?
OP is, I believe, in a 50 footer.

I have never seen anyone try to leave from Brunsbuttel and there are usually a goodly selection of 45' + yachts leaving Cuxhaven. You do occasionally see yachts motoring against the tide, but as this can be around 4kn, this can't be very rewarding. Maybe a 50 footer motoring at 7 1/2-8kn might have a chance but there is plenty of mooring space in Cuxhaven for large craft.

 

[Dockhead]

An old thread -- are there any newer or better resources which have appeared in the mean time?

 

[Dockhead]

No one?

 

[johnalison]

I'm not sure what information you are looking for. In terms of tidal streams it mostly just flows up and down river except at the entrance where there can be some eddies and slack points that I have found to be hard to predict anyway. Basically all you need is the time of high or low water and how long it takes to change at each place, which is about a delay of 1.5 hours at Cuxhaven and I think (from memory) about two hours at Brunsbuttel.

 

[Dockhead]

I'm not sure what information you are looking for. In terms of tidal streams it mostly just flows up and down river except at the entrance where there can be some eddies and slack points that I have found to be hard to predict anyway. Basically all you need is the time of high or low water and how long it takes to change at each place, which is about a delay of 1.5 hours at Cuxhaven and I think (from memory) about two hours at Brunsbuttel.

The Elbe is a lot more complicated than that, and the streams can be very strong indeed so it's not a trivial question for navigating the Elbe.

I found the answer to the question -- the BSH now actually publishes GRIBS for stream predictions in the Elbe every day: Oberflächenströmung für Segler.

They are a little clunky to download and view, but they perfectly answer the question. They can also help choose the right part of the river to be in to avoid the worst of an adverse stream, or maximize the benefit of a favorable one.

 

[johnalison]

The Elbe is a lot more complicated than that, and the streams can be very strong indeed so it's not a trivial question for navigating the Elbe.

I found the answer to the question -- the BSH now actually publishes GRIBS for stream predictions in the Elbe every day: Oberflächenströmung für Segler.

They are a little clunky to download and view, but they perfectly answer the question. They can also help choose the right part of the river to be in to avoid the worst of an adverse stream, or maximize the benefit of a favorable one.

That may be so, but generally you have little choice about where to go. Unless you are tacking you are confined to the channel outside the buoys, and you may be further restricted by other yachts and even small ships. Other than accepting that the tide runs stronger towards the outside of the bends, I have never felt the need to plan in any more detail. There is a buoyed short-cut between Cuxhaven and Brunsbuttel that I have followed once but the weaker tide negated the effect of the shorter distance and I think they are about equal, though is suppose it could be useful if bucking the tide.