This month's YM

Oh dear

There is little hope for the planet. Why would anyone want to drink with them?

Drinking should be something one does with people whom one respects and whose company one enjoys. But I'm afraid very few Englishmen really know how to drink, it's not part of the national culture.
 
That\'s the point

..you want what you want, they want what they want, trouble is times and activities differ. I am actually with you and others in not wanting roudy all nighters alongside but if they are there then the problem is for you, or whoever, how to deal with it/them. If they are not for listening, then it's plan B.

BTW if you meet me in the Solent, keep well clear as the navigation will have gone wildly astray!
 
Re: Oh dear

I think that the point David is making (rather lightly) is along the lines of going on holiday to somewhere where you suspect you might come across other people on holiday. Don't be surprised if their behaviour is different to yours.

As for the English and alcohol, it is part of our culture and (unfortunately) is a growing trend encouraged by mass advertising etc, I see many drunks across all sectors of society, it is not a preserve of certain classes, nor any more are drugs, just look at our Royals and their bretheren.
 
Re: Oh dear

Well, I would agree that is isn't surprising that one comes across complete idiots from time to time. But I still don't understand why one might want to drink with them.

As for drinking, no it's not part of English culture. Scottish, well, a little bit, but not even then really more than a distant primeval call. Not the English. The fact that there are some drunks around does not mean that a people understand anything about drinking.

Having spent 7 years at the high temple of learning on this subject, I am no expert, only an apprentice, but am able at least to recognise the principles of the art, and can see whether a people have at least taken their first steps in an understanding. The English certainly have not.

A Professor from the high temple recently came here (Oxford) to lecture and do some research on his special subject, alchohol abuse. Tragically, he died of drinking to much methanol during his visit. Had he lived little longer, perhaps he would have cast a little enlightenment among this dark and sorry people.
 
Temple of high learning??

I presume when you say 7 years learning etc you mean that is the length of time you have been consuming, if so it is of no relevance at all to the point and not a qualification of any sort. Drinking is not an art.

<Complete Idiots> no one is forcing anyone to drink with anyone.

If the English culture does not include drink then please explain the thousands of pubs, clubs (including yacht clubs) and other licensed establishments that are spread across our country and others such as Scotland. As an Englishman I can assure you that I fully understand (we treat many people a week who have a serious drink problem and many others who don't recognise it) drinking and many others do as well, so I don't see how you can come to this conclusion. What makes the Scots different from us or say the Welsh or Irish.


Shame about the professor, Alcohol abuse amongst teachers etc is a significant problem.
 
Re: Temple of high learning??

No, the temple of higher learning is Russia. There drinking is right at the heart of the culture, the way Russians get in touch with their soul. In England people merely drink in order to get plastered at the pub. I didn't say that the English never drink. They get through quite a bit of beer. Incidentally beer is not generally thought of as an alchoholic drink in Russia - it's treated as a soft drink for refreshment on a hot day or to wash vodka down with while 'drinking'.

The point is not how many units of alchohol one gets through (although, again the average Englishman gets through a small fraction of the alchohol consumed by a Russian), it is the WAY that you drink it, your PURPOSE in drinking it, and WHO you drink with.

Some English friends came to visit me in Moscow. We went to some friends for a drink. My English friends were very gung-ho and were determined to have a vodka "drinking session", and challenged one of my Russian friends to a drinking competition. This was the wrong way to go about it. The Russian friend did not take this seriously, but let the English go ahead. Shortly after dinner, I found one of the English friends lying on his back in the bathroom, unconscious on the floor, clutching the sink that he had ripped off the wall as he fell, surrounded by a fountain of water. The other was soon unconscious elsewhere. These two understood the next day that they had got something wrong. The Russian incidentally drank several times as much (something like 3 litres of vodka) without even trying - he had nothing to prove to anyone - and went to bed quite happy and was fine the next day...

Well, there are lots of stories like that, what I am trying to say is that the English drink in a kind of "all boys together" way, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. As often as not just to try to prove how much they can drink. That is not what I call a drinking culture.
 
Oh, and the Scots...

I forgot. What makes them a little different is Robert Burns (much of which incidentally, any Russian will know off by heart).
 
Re: Get a life!

I think the problem is thatthe situation as in life calls for one of compromise
In my youth we often caroused till late
but did so In hushed tones so as not to wake the neighbours. If the carousers are not prepared to quieten down then that is wrong, and complaint should be made to the harbour master. Short of confronting them there is not much else you can do and you cannot reason with a drunk. In my experience nearly all yachties are reasonable people, they realise there is no excuse for bad behaviour. I have never had any problems extracting an apology and have made some good friends out of similar situations. If you have to be away early you cannot do this and in short you have just have to put up with it. I do however believe that casting people adrift is wrong any way you look at it. It could be dangerous for the boat the crew and other people. Where do you stop. Why not just start a small fire in the cockpit and see if that wakes them? It smacks of the hang and flog ‘em brigade, which I hoped had all gone landward and were now propping up the bars in golf clubs.

I have to confess I speak as a dreaded charterer, without a doubt the low life of the earth. We do not have the funds to own our own boat or the wit to sail the ones we charter. Or so the story goes.
It matters not a jot that I live as far from the sea that you can get so I would see my boat only after 4hrs plus commute. That I want to sail the world without actually having to sail around it. In yachting as in life there are good and bad and I defy anyone to say they have been in the right all the time. Rant over.


If F***s Flys or Floats, Rent it.
 
Re: Revenge

There is a certain elegance to this 'passive' repost which I admire. I must remember it for the future.....

The issue about whether or not to cast adrift another boat manned only by slumbering alcoholics has already been exhausted and I won't fuel it further here other than to say I would be sorely tempted but would probably bottle out at the last minute - mainly for fear of the possible legal consequences at a later date, given our (depressing) increasingly litiginous society - rather than concern for their welfare.

On the one occasion that I was faced with a similarly unbearable row at 2am, I announced to the culprits that unless they piped down, I would empty the contents of a half-full tin of red anti-fouling paint into their cockpit as I departed early the next morning. The mere threat seemed enough to make them reconsider their antics and it saved me having to actually commit an act of criminal damage. As an aside, I wasn't actually leaving early the next day and enjoyed several words of support from other victims who admired the tactic!
 
In love with Russia

Quite frankly I find your epitomising Russians as the great soul drinkers of the world quite amusing. It would seem that, as a disaffected brit that you have sought solace elsewhere and, are clinging to some foreign mystique as an escape from the realities of life in the UK. Don't for one minute assume that all Brits are lager swilling louts as portrayed in the media. We are a sophisticated nation with a democracy and econemy that far outstrips that of Russia and most other nations in the world. The people you attack are likely to be mere kittens when compared to their social equivqlent in Russia. The very thought that drinking 3 litres of Vodka is an acceptable part of a national culture is laughable. Get into the real world and out of the "temple" and you will meet and experience culture as it is and not what you imagine. Finally, differentiate between drinking culture and behaviour as the two are totally separate.
 
Re: In love with Russia

Thanks for the slightly incoherent advice (you haven’t been drinking, have you?).

“It would seem that, as a disaffected brit that you have sought solace elsewhere and, are clinging to some foreign mystique as an escape
from the realities of life in the UK.“

May seem like that to you, but you don’t know me and you’re way off the mark. I’m not a disaffected Brit, just someone who enjoys Russian culture. I also enjoy quite a few things about British culture, although it’s a little ill at the moment. I also rarely drink, by the way. Partly because most alchohol causes and allergic reaction!

“Don't for one minute assume that all Brits are lager swilling louts as portrayed in the media.”

I don’t watch the media, so couldn’t say. Is that what they’re portrayed as?

“We are a sophisticated nation with a democracy and econemy that far outstrips that of Russia and most other nations in the world. The people you attack are likely to be mere kittens when compared to their social equivqlent in Russia.”

Pretty much any nation in the world is sophisticated. Apart from the British assume sense of superiority, the economy is what Britain has going for it. The Russian economy is probably more dynamic at the moment (ie. lots of entrepreneurial, fast moving, fast growth) but the per capita GDP etc. in Russia is of course a lot less. Your statement about the democracy bit sounds a bit shallow and self-satisfied, and is rather more disputable, but ultimately I wouldn’t argue with it.

Yes, the British equivalent is likely to be a kitten. You think that’s a good thing?

“The very thought that drinking 3 litres of Vodka is an acceptable part of a national culture is laughable.”

Why? It is accepted by 148 million people over there. The fact that it doesn’t fit your personal views doesn’t make it laughable. Rather than trying to persuade those people that their culture is wrong, you might try travelling a bit more, preferably with your eyes open.

“Get into the real world and out of the "temple" and you will meet and
experience culture as it is and not what you imagine.”

Thank you for the advice. As I say, I rarely drink. I also no longer live in Russia. I’m not therefore quite sure how to get out of the temple.

“Finally, differentiate between drinking culture and behaviour as the two are totally separate.”

Behaviour is very closely linked to drinking culture. You’ll find that a person behaves differently when drunk. What your sentence should have read is that drinking behaviour and culture are totally separate. In Britain, they are, which is my point.

You’re right about the in love with Russia bit, though (you had to be right about SOMETHING!). Fantastic place.
 
Re: Drinking

Thank you for the rather bank-handed compliment, although I must admit thought Churchill's version was a little funnier. Nevertheless, truly a shining wit (if you'll pardon the Spoonerism).

Good luck with the hangover. As I'm sure you know, the best cure next morning is a soft drink like beer.
 
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