Things that make your (modern) boat safe

[Jmolan]

Wire is DEAD weight.

I got rid of all wire and turnbuckles on the boat. I feel MUCH safer not having to worry about all those SS fittings with crevice corrosion, fatigue, weight up high. Dynex Dux I used at 7mm is 15,500 lbs. as opposed to brand new SS wire at 8,000 lbs. breaking strength....took 40 lbs. off of my original rigging (34' Searunner Tri) pics below

If it does come down, or my boat goes inverted, I guess a good serrated edge knife will cut it all away....

 

[haydude]

What about:
- 3-blade propeller?
Thanks

Why would a 3 blade propeller be safer?

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I got rid of all wire and turnbuckles on the boat. I feel MUCH safer not having to worry about all those SS fittings with crevice corrosion, fatigue, weight up high. Dynex Dux I used at 7mm is 15,500 lbs. as opposed to brand new SS wire at 8,000 lbs. breaking strength....took 40 lbs. off of my original rigging (34' Searunner Tri) pics below

If it does come down, or my boat goes inverted, I guess a good serrated edge knife will cut it all away....

Dynex Dux ??

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

an older, more moderate hull design

Having sailed modern 'fat bottom' (and broad stern) boats in only moderatly bad conditions (35kn wind with 1 to 1.5 metre waves) I would suggest changing to an older, more moderate hull design to start with.

Like a Twister 28 or a Trident Voyage 35 or a Tradewind 35 or 39 or a Nicholson 38 ?

 

[William_H]

Safeety in a maodern boat

I think the most important advances in safety are radio, GPS and EPIRB.(emergency locator beacon)
All the other aspects listed are important but have always been important. olewill

 

[srm]

I think the most important advances in safety are radio, GPS and EPIRB.(emergency locator beacon)
All the other aspects listed are important but have always been important. olewill

Perhaps its my generation, but having sailed for many years, and quite a few thousand miles without any of the toys you regard as 'most important' they are no higher up my safety list than 'nice to have'.

My priority is a seaworthy hull and structure which will stay afloat with the keel pointing downward, propelled by a sensible rig that will stay up, and managed by a crew that understands no matter how many radios or mobile phones you carry once out of shouting distance from the shore you are effectively on your own.

Given that starting point the boat and crew are fitted out and equiped to be as self sufficient as practical for all likely, and a few unlikely, eventualities.

Your safety philosophy is apparently based on 'shout for help and hope someone hears and will look after us'. Mine is more on the lines of 'its my choice to be here so its my responsibility to look after myself'

Our differences are partly a generation thing and partly some of the places I have sailed - as a survival course instructor I am aware that there is a practical limit to the offshore range of the UK's safety cover, and that other countries do not have as good (or generous) a system as the Uk's. I do not worry when sailing well outside of it.

 

[srm]

Like a Twister 28 or a Trident Voyage 35 or a Tradewind 35 or 39 or a Nicholson 38 ?

Indeed Scotty, all good seaworthy designs that will look after the crew in extreme conditions, and with a much larger angle of vanishing stability than modern dinghy type hulls, but because of their dynamic stability due to narrower beam are less likely to test that angle. The Nic 38 I sailed on struck me as a bit short of sail area, but was almost comfortable one October night in a F7 to 8 off Fair Isle. Sadly, I have not had the pleasure of sailing a Twister, but owned a Trintella 29 for many years that has a very similar hull only with a counter instead of transom stern.

 

[lw395]

Why would a 3 blade propeller be safer?

I think this is based on many yachts having non-optimum props. A 3 blade with more blade area might be better in punching a head on sea than a folding 2 blade racer's prop for instance.

There's certainly no harm in having a good engine and drive train to fall back on. In a wider sense, safety is about being able to manoeuvre effectively in harbours and approaches as well as toughing it out on the open ocean.

Another big aid to safety is the luxury of being able to pick when you sail, rather than being pressured to set off on a dodgy forecast.

As SRM says, different hull forms have differing ability in heavy weather, do the sailing that your boat is good at and enjoy it. If you wish to sail in a wilder area, choose your boat accordingly.

I don't see epirbs etc as aids to safety, rather as mitigation when it's all gone wrong. Survival aids when safety has failed I suppose.
Decent systems of receiving weather info would be an aid to keeping safe imho.


Picking from what has been said on this thread, the single most cost effective aid that could be added to many boats I've been on would be decent handholds on deck and below.

 

[William_H]

Shout for help

Perhaps its my generation, but having sailed for many years, and quite a few thousand miles without any of the toys you regard as 'most important' they are no higher up my safety list than 'nice to have'.


Your safety philosophy is apparently based on 'shout for help and hope someone hears and will look after us'. Mine is more on the lines of 'its my choice to be here so its my responsibility to look after myself'

Our differences are partly a generation thing and partly some of the places I have sailed - as a survival course instructor I am aware that there is a practical limit to the offshore range of the UK's safety cover, and that other countries do not have as good (or generous) a system as the Uk's. I do not worry when sailing well outside of it.

Hello SRM I certainly agree one should be self sufficient no question. I was more thinking of what has changed in safety of recent years. Certainly all the usual requirements for a robust boat are a priority.
However, re radio here small boats are not permitted more than 3Nm of shore without an appropriate radio.
Re range of safety cover, RAN out of my home port had no problem fishing Tony Bulimore out of the icy water a mere 2000NM due south of here. About 3 days at combat speed in a modern destroyer with gas turbine auxiliary engines ( for go fast). And yes they had to dispatch an oiler to refuel the destroyer so it could get home again. RAAF have SAR responsibilty from Fremantle to mid Indian ocean (half way to Durban) So if I were ever to venture far away I would never feel out of range of help. But no that is not going to happen so don't worry. I seldom venture far. olewill

 

[TQA]

I think the most important advances in safety are radio, GPS and EPIRB.(emergency locator beacon)
All the other aspects listed are important but have always been important. olewill

Hmmmm so some one else has to come and help you? Not sure that is the OP's intent.

 

[VO5]

...not to forget....securing of heavy items...tool boxes...anchors...extra precations in securing gimballed cookers...boom lashings to stop it swinging about..extra bilge pumps...ventilator caps...for starters.

 

[VO5]

...If the anchor locker is not self draining...plug the hawse pipe....
washing up liquid securely stored so it doesn't go on the floor...and that goes for all galley items, tinned food, glass jars and bottles.

 

[VO5]

...fitting of proper lee cloths...kidney dishes for seasick crew turned in...dry clothes in waterproof bags...dried bread to nibble on when seasick...taped hatchboards...general assesment of full watertight integrity of the vessel as a precaution of prudent seamanship....proper first aid kit...etc.,

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Gear Does Not Equate To Safety

I was reading the article in August's YM regarding the 1979 fastnet race and the rescuer's boat that although having a little 12hp engine they were able to help mainly due to their variable pitch propeller.....so I have the following question:
What sort of gear could make a boat more safe? I would appreciate answers relating to modern design "fat bottom" boats since I own one of these.
Thanks

Safety at sea is always about understanding you, your boat and its equipment. Its not about having equipment to make your boat safe. In fact having many additional safety features can make your life more dangerous. This has been demonstrated many times through various tests. Its what lies behind the joke that Volvos are always in accidents!

In a nut shell a human being who believes there is a real danger does not take risks, but one who believes he is protected takes greater risks. I cant explain this but you will find that it is true if your look into the psychology of human risk taking. I have been exposed to this in many years of oil and gas HSE training.

In the article you talk about, the chap found a variable pitch propeller helped him manoeuvre in difficult conditions. He could probably have done this with a fixed blade propeller as well but of course we shall never know. He obviously had the skill to position his boat in those conditions.

There was a letter in YM this summer about a man over boat incident and that chap positioned his boat next to the person in the water rapidly by gybing in heavy winds and seas and positioning to leeward of the MOB. Again he knew what he was doing. He found it hard to get the person in, but he did, without special equipment (if I remember correctly)

So know your boat, your own skills and go out and have fun in confidence because having 4 GPS systems with auto go-home, a pile of wooden bungs and an AIS with variable pitch propellers and active heat seeking sonar isn't going to make you any safer.

 

[jeanpaulcopie]

I think the most important advances in safety are radio, GPS and EPIRB.(emergency locator beacon)
All the other aspects listed are important but have always been important. olewill

I'm not sure I agree totally to that. I would go back to older, well proofed desings, boats capable of lying ahull in a gale, boats that are able to take care of themselves and that is not the main character of modedrn production boats. I sailed from Nouméa to Cairns , single handed some ten years ago in a good old 12 M steel boat (a Rêve d'Antilles deseigned by FINOT in the 70s) although in quite rough seas. I wouldn't do that in my Bénéteau 38! Radio and EPRIB are fine but contain the false safety of relying on someone else. In some areas they are milessss away. I come to agree with you but the elctronic devices are not on my prority list. GPS is if you also have a sextant!... and the books of work!

 

[michael_w]

Fit out to Cat II standard in the ISAF Special regulations. Oooer! racing boat stuff.http://www.rorc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34&Itemid=26

In a sh*tfight I'd rather be in a raceboat than a clonky cruiser, because of this stuff on board.

Admittedly, I've never seen the point of double clipping hoses. Most skin fittings can only take one clip and if you do need to the hose off, it has to be cut away.

 

[Krusty]

...........
My priority is a seaworthy hull and structure which will stay afloat with the keel pointing downward, propelled by a sensible rig that will stay up, and managed by a crew that understands no matter how many radios or mobile phones you carry once out of shouting distance from the shore you are effectively on your own.
Given that starting point the boat and crew are fitted out and equiped to be as self sufficient as practical for all likely, and a few unlikely, eventualities.............
.

I'm with SRM on this; I would only add that the KISS principle and MIR (Make It Robust) seem to work.

My quarrel with modern 'easy-sail' systems with everything led to the cockpit is that crews do not gain experience, familiarity or confidence in working at the mast or on the foredeck in anything uncomfortable; the never learn to be seamen.
Then when something fails in a blow and heavy sea (headsail reefing line or a haliard, for example) the crew cannot cope and the boat is in trouble.
I've twice been involved in a rescue for no better reason than no-one on board could go to the bow to haul down a genoa.
Its' pathetic!

 

[jjj]

A decent skipper

 

[OGITD]

Thank You!

You could try this one:

http://www.eaora.org.uk/docs/2009_eaora_special_regulations.pdf

I have been looking for something like this for some time now.

 

[boatmike]

For starters:

A third reef.

A storm jib that's easy to rig and has sensible sheeting.

Plentiful hand holds down below.

Foot braces in the cockpit.

Secure harness points near the companion way (use when going on deck or going below).

Secure harness points for the helmsman.

Securing straps on the battery.

Positive locks on all lockers below and in the cockpit.

An inside/outside locking system for wash boards.

A sensible ballast ratio.

A good start from a traditional sailor with a proper old fashioned seaboat. I would however add.

Remove all sharp corners and things you can either nut yourself (in either sense) on or will break ribs if you fall on them. If you cant remove them wrap them up in foam.

Radar, AIS and chartplotters are all modern aids that make sailing safer.

A good radar reflector, SeaMe if you can afford it

A liferaft even if it's a budget one

Then it's down to crew. Get out there in heavy weather sometimes and get to practice boat handling in a F8 at least. Most modern boats are very capable but crews fail before the boat does!