They don't make them like they used to!

[vyv_cox]

Our UK boat is a 1973 Colvic Northerner, 26 ft. Unfortunately, when she was built all the external timber, quite a lot on a motor boat of that vintage, was all attached by galvanised steel bolts. Many of these are now almost totally corroded away and it is a never-ending task to replace them. We are currently replacing the timber and bolts around the forefoot where there have been significant leaks.

It has been almost a working day's work to remove five bolts, due to access problems, dismantling furniture and bolts heavily rusted in place. However, we finally got there and I set about measuring the hull thickness so I can order new bolts. The minimum thickness of the layup is 1.25 inches, a couple at almost two inches and at one, at the maximum turn of the stem, it is three inches thick! Peering into the hole suggests it is solid all the way, no voids that I can see.

 

[cliveshelton]

Ask Sir RKJ how long it's taken him to do Suhali!

 

[Baddox]

That sounds like a labour of love Vyv, but I’m sure it will be rewarding when finished; are these things ever finished?

 

[Daydream believer]

So are you telling us that it is a good job that production methods & design have moved on & now there are some decent boats about instead of the rotten old carp we used to have????

 

[sarabande]

same for my COlvic Watson 34. I replaced the transducer, and the hull, not particularly near the keel was an inch thick. Mark you, she did displace 16.4 tonnes on the liftout crane sensor


Immensely satisfying to have a strongly built boat when it comes to lock games :eeek:

 

[vyv_cox]

So are you telling us that it is a good job that production methods & design have moved on & now there are some decent boats about instead of the rotten old carp we used to have????

Shhhhh! She doesn't like to be described as a rotten old carp. It's only the steel bolts and half the timber that is rotten anyway.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Yep, I drilled a hole for a new intake (for a water cooled fridge), and that was a good 2" of solid fibreglass... the coachroof is also 2" thick, but in that case, with a core..... of mahogany!

 

[jordanbasset]

Shhhhh! She doesn't like to be described as a rotten old carp. It's only the steel bolts and half the timber that is rotten anyway.

:encouragement:

 

[JumbleDuck]

So are you telling us that it is a good job that production methods & design have moved on & now there are some decent boats about instead of the rotten old carp we used to have????

Plastic wood effect veneer on chipboard for the interiors?

 

[Daydream believer]

Plastic wood effect veneer on chipboard for the interiors?

GRP that does not rot in the way wood does
Lighter construction to give better performance
materials that have easy clean surfaces that do not need varnishing every year
materials that allow structural changes that allow the craft to have more room
Wider range of adhesives with greater bonding powers if used correctly

As for chipboard -- It would be interesting to know which manufacturers are actually using it-- or is it just a dig at modern techniques

 

[Koeketiene]

GRP that does not rot in the way wood does

True - but a boat with rot down below is just a bad boat. Regardless of when it was built

Lighter construction to give better performance

In light airs, sure. In a blow, you do get to appreciate a bit of extra displacement

materials that have easy clean surfaces that do not need varnishing every year

Who do you know has a boat where the interior needs varnishing every year?

materials that allow structural changes that allow the craft to have more room

Why this - all to common - misconception that all MABs must be cramped?

Wider range of adhesives with greater bonding powers if used correctly

Quite so

As for chipboard -- It would be interesting to know which manufacturers are actually using it-- or is it just a dig at modern techniques

Just checked the Bavaria website. (lack of time prevents me of checking the websites of every other manufacturer)
It says the interior of their boats is solid wood and veneer.
Veneer, as I understand it, is:

In woodworking, veneer refers to thin slices of wood, usually thinner than 3 mm (1/8 inch), that typically are glued onto core panels (typically, wood, particle board or medium-density fiberboard) to produce flat panels such as doors, tops and panels for cabinets, parquet floors and parts of furniture

Standing by to be corrected.

 

[sailaboutvic]

GRP that does not rot in the way wood does
Lighter construction to give better performance
materials that have easy clean surfaces that do not need varnishing every year
materials that allow structural changes that allow the craft to have more room
Wider range of adhesives with greater bonding powers if used correctly

As for chipboard -- It would be interesting to know which manufacturers are actually using it-- or is it just a dig at modern techniques

I would agree on almost every thing you have said except the veneer on ply which is a hell of a job to do any thing with once it has been damages . We have a few chips and no matter what I do there no way that I can find to repair it like new . Where on my all of moodys I had over twenty years you could always rub it down and vanish it and it would come up like new .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[vyv_cox]

I would agree on almost every thing you have said except the veneer on ply which is a hell of a job to do any thing with once it has been damages . We have a few chips and no matter what I do there no way that I can find to repair it like new . Where on my all of moodys I had over twenty years you could always rub it down and vanish it and it would come up like new .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

A recent article by Richard Hare in PBO mentioned that the veneer on older plywood was 0.9 mm thick, whereas nowadays it is down to 0.5 mm. This new stuff is very intolerant of sanding for revarnishing. I would also add that the quality of the original plywood on the 1973 OP boat is superb, close grained, well adhered and smooth. A distinct difference from some of the stuff I have bought recently that will barely cover the substrate and tends to bubble if it sees rain.

 

[Daydream believer]

True - but a boat with rot down below is just a bad boat. Regardless of when it was built



In light airs, sure. In a blow, you do get to appreciate a bit of extra displacement



Who do you know has a boat where the interior needs varnishing every year?



Why this - all to common - misconception that all MABs must be cramped?



Quite so



Just checked the Bavaria website. (lack of time prevents me of checking the websites of every other manufacturer)
It says the interior of their boats is solid wood and veneer.
Veneer, as I understand it, is:


Standing by to be corrected.

Solid wood with veneer is NOT chipboard
Varnish - had 2 Stellas both needed regular internal maintenance but my 11 year old Hanse is beautiful inside & is a pleasure to be in
Heavy displacement in heavy airs-- well for a start most people sail most of the time in 10-15 kts . They might appreciate a boat with a bit of performance rather than an old dog that needs a wind to actually stop it wallowing
That being said i agree some older boats are good - twister!! - but stick the name Colvic to it & you know it needs a 50 hp engine to get out of the marina
MABS cramped- no not if big enough but proportionally they are smaller inside than modern designs
How many of the older designs perform as well as modern ones? ( should i have said that -every man & his dog will now berate me)
Lets face it - if those old designs were any good why did people stop buying them. Dont give me any carp aboit that is what the manufacturers produced. The top manufacturers produce what sells

 

[Daydream believer]

I would agree on almost every thing you have said except the veneer on ply which is a hell of a job to do any thing with once it has been damages . We have a few chips and no matter what I do there no way that I can find to repair it like new . Where on my all of moodys I had over twenty years you could always rub it down and vanish it and it would come up like new .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

But my 11 year old boat shines like a shilling up a sweeps a..se ----why would i want to scratch it & varnish it. It has not faded & does not need varnishing. But i do not have a dog or kids that are allowed to run riot . Perhaps that is the reason

 

[pvb]

Just checked the Bavaria website. (lack of time prevents me of checking the websites of every other manufacturer)
It says the interior of their boats is solid wood and veneer.

Standing by to be corrected.

Bavaria use veneered marine ply (as do Hallberg-Rassy) and solid wood trim (as do Hallberg-Rassy). The interior woodwork on modern Bavarias is very solid, although it does show evidence of mass production techniques - the ply panels are machined with tabs which lock in to machined slots in other panels, very solid but not too attractive.

 

[Koeketiene]

if those old designs were any good why did people stop buying them. Dont give me any carp aboit that is what the manufacturers produced. The top manufacturers produce what sells

You may think it's carp, but it remains true all the same.
I do have the original invoice when the first owner bought the boat.
What he paid for a 44' new in 1984 was the equivalent of about 7 times the price of an average home.
What you would pay now for a new 44' AWB boat is less than the price of an average home.
Manufactures figured out that they could sell more, cheaper boats in part by adopting different techniques, in part by cutting corner.
A boat designer (who worked mainly for semi-custom Dutch boat builders) explained it to me as follows:
Till the late 1980's boats were built/designed to go out in any weather, any time. Then they came to the conclusion that most boat owners never went out in anything above a F5 (you seem to agree with this), so requirements were adapted accordingly.

 

[Otter]

Sadly Daydreamer has turned a friendly discussion about older boats into a rant about how much nicer his modern boat is. I'm sure it's really lovely but it doesn't seem to make him a calm person. Or maybe it does and he'd be reeeeeealy angry if it was an old one

I think you're right Guapa, they we designed for anything and had a British engineering approach which was to add big girders and thicker walls. Just in case.

Our Colvic Watson is heavy and roomy and suits a young family, but I also like modern yachts, there's a cleanness of lines and a simplicity of form and function that you just don't get on an older boat. The OP's boat with the old steel fasteners caused us a similar problem when the rubbing strake gave up the ghost. We had a huge difficulty and most of the fastenings snapped off 2mm proud of the GRP. A lot of work ensued but we replaced with a Tek-Dek strake so at least they'll be no wood to rot. Lovely stuff but much easier to work with on a warm day than a cold one.

 

[sailorman]

True - but a boat with rot down below is just a bad boat. Regardless of when it was built



In light airs, sure. In a blow, you do get to appreciate a bit of extra displacement



Who do you know has a boat where the interior needs varnishing every year?



Why this - all to common - misconception that all MABs must be cramped?



Quite so



Just checked the Bavaria website. (lack of time prevents me of checking the websites of every other manufacturer)
It says the interior of their boats is solid wood and veneer.
Veneer, as I understand it, is:



Standing by to be corrected.

[Just checked the Bavaria website. (lack of time prevents me of checking the websites of every other manufacturer)
It says the interior of their boats is solid wood and veneer.
Veneer, as I understand it, is:]

mdf is solid

 

[pvb]

mdf is solid

But you won't find it in a modern Bavaria.