There's a hole in my sump pan

[zxc123]

There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Just discovered a nasty problem with the Volvo MD2030 engine in the 3 year old boat I recently bought. The engine has what appears to be a rust hole in the bottom of the sump pan. Result: no oil in engine. Fixing this is going to involve having the engine out, a painfully expensive exercise and right in the middle of the sailing season.

I bought the boat just a few weeks ago. The engine has been run for at most a couple of hours since then (a 5 mile delivery trip) before the problem manifested itself.

Is it worth chasing the surveyors? (I had a full survey, but the boat was out of the water so the engine wasn't run).

Anyone else come across similar problems with this engine type? Any suggestions as to a likely cause? The most plausible I've come across yet is that the boat might have sat with a few inches of seawater above the floorboards for long enough to have an effect on the engine. Not much evidence of this elsewhere in the boat, but it's certainly possible.


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[plombier]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Did the engine loose it's oil after you bought it or are you saying that it had no oil in when you took it over. If the latter, I'm surprised that the surveyor did not, at the very least, check the level/condition of oil on the dipstick during the survey.

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[Sybarite]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Check your terms of reference for the surveyor. What did you ask him to do and did he exclude the engine in his report?

J.

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[simonwood]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Does anyone know how this happened?
Faulty sump?

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[Nauti Fox]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

I had a similar problem with a 7.4 mercruiser.Had a full survey and all was ok,but was advised by someone to get the engine serviced while it was there as it had sat for a while.They then found a leaky sump.The vendors agreed to have it relaced which was engine out etc(this was after I had payed in full).I don't think the surveyer was poor in that you just coud'nt see under there and it did'nt show up on the trial.I don't know where you stand legally but if approached they may be helpful,otherwise seek specialist legal advice.
Good luck, Al.

<hr width=100% size=1>No dear,the water goes in the other one.

 

[brianhumber]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Most surveyors will coment on the appearance of the oil and good ones will look at hose fretting, if the exhaust has excess sooting and other condition indicators. Others will exclude engine comments if it is not within their area of expertise.
However all surveyors will state they can only assess items in a non destructive way that they can see. If this hole was inaccessible and the rest of the engine had good paintwork, with the bilge in dry non oily state then unrealistic to expect a Surveyor to going stabbing at the sump pan to probe for odd rust spots IMHO

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[dickh]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

It must have had sea water around the sump at some stage - it would only need a small damaged area of paint for the rust to get a hold. I would certainly follow this up with Volvo - don't suppose you'll get any joy, but worth a try - "Fit for purpose" and all that.......... Good Luck anyway. I have the Perkins Perama which is the same family of engines and I've had no problems, but I'll keep an eye on it in future. I believe this engine is now assembled in UK by Perkins and not in Japan as mine.
My only experience of a similar problem is on the Vauxhall Corsa with the 1.5TD engine - we had to have ours replaced about a year ago when I noticed oil on the driveway. Apparently it was a poor paint job, the rust gets under the paint and the paint bubbles up - obviously caught it in time - the local garage who repaired it said he had done several and it was a known problem.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: possible fix

in a sailing boat, i'd have a go at bodging this up if at all possible to continue the season. The sump doesn't move, it's just a container for the oil at the bottom innit?

one idea for a diy fix is a Kollision Kit . Force Four have these for about fifty quid. It is two-part gloop you mix together and makes a good seal underwater - in fact the primary purpose of the stuff - to fix a leak without having to hoik out the boat. in other words, the surface only has to be solid, but not actually dry necesarily.

Use a hefty steel brush and oxalic acid/rust remover/ paint remover to get a solid surface on the sump. Then cut a piece of material from the kit, mix the gloop, slap it on the material and slap the whole thing on the sump. If it doesn't work (but i think it will) yerv lost nothing cept the price of the kit - but actually i thinkit useful for everyone to have one of the kits on board anyway.

yes, if got about five kits on board, but then i'm paranoid...

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[compie1]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Can you see or feel the actual hole?

If you do, you can try to clean it and fill the hole (even if it is very small) with "cold metal" like Magnum steel from versachem US company.
Its a product like mastic and is sold in Belgium, should be also in UK someware, the oil sump pan is under almost no pressure so try it with that and check, but i think it can save you a lot of money!!!

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tom@vancompernolle.be

 

[Nauti Fox]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

While I'd normally agree with trying to find a way round it if it was a road vehicle I would be inclined to get it replaced as if it did fail it would more than likely be when you needed it most.
Al.

<hr width=100% size=1>No dear,the water goes in the other one.

 

[tcm]

Re: advantage of a temporary fix

agreed regarding fix with magic componds etc

Also, if somebody hoiks the engine out, they will replace the sump, flush the engine a bit and bosh it back in, all seemingly fine .

Whereas with a temporary fix, (obviously change filters, flush oil, replace oil) you will have more tiem to find if there's anything else wrong. Running a dry engine could have caused bearing etc probs (or maybe not) but it really would be a shame if you went the exspensive route to haul out the engine only to find other probs further down the line - and a temporary fixc to get the engine working again asap would do this, no bad thing imho - and on reflection poss better than a haulout at this moment....

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[Birdseye]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Take the engine out yourself. Its not a difficult thing to do in most cases. Just unbolt and remove the ancilliaries, disconnect the shaft, undo the engine mounts and if possible split the engine from the box to make it lighter to deal with. Its quite possible that you may be able to cant the engine to one side in such a way that you can get at the sump without totally lifting out the engine.

Takes me 3 hours to remove my engine and half a day to put it back. The sump itself is usually just a matter of undoing bolts and dropping it off.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[graham]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Had a similar problem with a volvo sump cracked on the side.

Apparently its not just an oil pan as it is machined to hold the crank bearings(half a hole on the sump lines up with half a hole machined in the engine block.)

As this one is a clapped out generator motor it is bodged up with magic metal filler(Which leaks only slightly after hundreds of hours use.).I dont know I would be happy with a main engine bodged up like that.

Best of luck I hope it doesnt waste too much sailing season for you.

I think it is a bit unfair to blame the surveyor for something which is so inaccessible and has occured since the purchase.Usually a survey will not cover the engine unless you specifically ask.

There must have been oil in the sump when you used the engine or it would have seized in minutes.

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[LiamS]

Re: There\'s a hole in my sump pan

Had same problem mine was caused by engine mount hitting sump when running.When I viewed her the mount was not touching sump but worked its way around.This had obviously been an ongoing problem that was realigned prior to my viewing!Afraid the only answer was to lift engine it did not have to be taken ashore and new sump bolted on.

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