Then and Now.

[Grubble]

Au contraire, am so very well aware that outdrives need regular maintaince.
Just pointing out that a shaft driven boat needs considerably less.

And a shaft driven boat gives considerably less performance than the equivalent outdrive boat, hence why finding a 35 foot or under sportscruiser on shafts is almost impossible. Of course if you want a 1980s brown velour floating mobile home on shafts, there are plenty going slowly mouldy in a marina near to you, but that is a debate more suited to a caravanning forum.

You will now pivot to outboards and Groundhog Day will continue.

 

[Greg2]

And a shaft driven boat gives considerably less performance than the equivalent outdrive boat, hence why finding a 35 foot or under sportscruiser on shafts is almost impossible. Of course if you want a 1980s brown velour floating mobile home on shafts, there are plenty going slowly mouldy in a marina near to you, but that is a debate more suited to a caravanning forum.

You will now pivot to outboards and Groundhog Day will continue.

To be fair, the reason sports cruisers of that size have outdrives is as much about enabling the style of boat and maximising accommodation due to the engines being at the back of the boat.

I smile at oldgit's anti-outdrive rhetoric having had experience of both outdrives and shafts on various boats. He isn't wrong in saying that outdrives need more maintenance and have a propensity for creating problems more often than shafts but they also have their benefits and they are what you get with mid-sized sports cruisers. I much prefer the simplicity and reliability of shafts but am not averse to outdrives if that is what comes with the type of boat we want
.

 

[Momac]

Au contraire, am so very well aware that outdrives need regular maintaince.
Just pointing out that a shaft driven boat needs considerably less.

I say that is an incorrect statement.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I say that is an incorrect statement.

Well, dunno about that, assume a shaft drive boat and a stern drive boat with the same engines; so apart from the engines, the shaft boat has… what exactly that needs the same amount of labour and parts on regular maintenance as the stern drives?

 

[madabouttheboat]

......bout the only thing that did not need fixing, the real grief was getting new gearchange cables through the transom and the trim indicator thingies were a problem.
All working now, Band Aids on hands been removed and boat ready for the first club trip of the season up to St Kats.
The expected weather apparently will be of the special UK Bank Holiday type.

Not the latest evilution (sic) then, as they don’t have gearshift cables.

 

[Momac]

Well, dunno about that, assume a shaft drive boat and a stern drive boat with the same engines; so apart from the engines, the shaft boat has… what exactly that needs the same amount of labour and parts on regular maintenance as the stern drives?

It is the use of the word ''considerably'' that is incorrect.
Sterndrives don't need that much work when you get used to it . Changing the oil on stern dives is not a challenge and very easy access although obviously requiring the boat out of the water.
Also with sterndrives the engines have good access for service work (well they do in my boat and on others I have seen) , while shaft drive engines can be well shoehorned in and more difficult access to items like impellers and filters.
From a hull antifoul and anodes perspective the need to lift out is the same.

 

[Greg2]

It is the use of the word ''considerably'' that is incorrect.
Sterndrives don't need that much work when you get used to it . Changing the oil on stern dives is not a challenge and very easy access although obviously requiring the boat out of the water.
Also with sterndrives the engines have good access for service work (well they do in my boat and on others I have seen) , while shaft drive engines can be well shoehorned in and more difficult access to items like impellers and filters.
From a hull antifoul and anodes perspective the need to lift out is the same.

Noting that I have no axe to grind here but having owned 3 outdrive and 3 shaft drive boats I think it is fair to say that outdrives require considerably more maintenance than shafts because year after year shafts often don’t need anything doing to them but outdrives require oil and bellows change at least every two years as a minimum. It might not be a drama once you know what you are doing and perhaps we are splitting hairs about which word to use but when the comparable shaft drive boat needs nothing year after year you do notice the difference.

Worth saying that I have also experienced cramped and difficult to access engine bays on outdrive boats and seen quite spacious installations on shaft drive boats but no question that your 4 pot motors in a spacious engine bay are excellent for access. We had similar on our S34 with KAD32s - it was an absolute pleasure to work down there
.

 

[ari]

There are pros and cons to both.

Totally agree that an outdrive boat requires more maintenance. But so what? A twin engine boat requires more maintenance than a single engine boat, and a single engine boat requires more maintenance than a sailing dinghy, and a sailing dinghy requires more maintenance than a kayak. So if that's your only deciding factor, buy a kayak.

But against that (on a planing boat at least, which most outdrive boats are), outdrives are more efficient, use less fuel, go faster, handle better at speed (as vectoring the thrust), are quieter (as engines are at the back of the boat, not under the floor further forward), have the ability to dry out, are far better protected regarding hitting anything in the water (as will simply tilt clear automatically), are more accessible should you get a rope around the prop and offer way better interior space utilisation for a sports cruiser up to about 40ft or a flybridge or deck saloon up to about 35ft.

So for some installations, outdrives are better, for others, shaft drive. A Princess 50 flybridge on outdrives would be absurd, a Sealine SC29 on shafts would be ridiculous.

One isn't 'better' than the other (other than in certain 'bar-room expert's' minds), simply one is more suitable than the other depending on the boat.

 

[SC35]

To provide a bit of balance, these are the outdrives on my 15 year old boat.
In a few days time, I might even be able to stand up straight and walk normally.

Antifoul splodges were rubbed off the anodes and blue tape removed after the picture was taken.

 

[oldgit]

10 boats in St Kat's this morning , one requires attention to get it home, as it happens the newest by far with 200 hours on the clock.
Most/ all the others are ancient 40 year old veterans with at least 1500 hours or more, all shaft drive of course..
All down to luck of course.
The skipper of course has decided enough is enough and has decided to change his luck .
The search for boat with shafts has already begun.

 

[Elessar]

To provide a bit of balance, these are the outdrives on my 15 year old boat.
In a few days time, I might even be able to stand up straight and walk normally.

Antifoul splodges were rubbed off the anodes and blue tape removed after the picture was taken.



View attachment 192170

The steering ram in the water design by Volvo, who were very experienced in building out drives, was particularly stupid.
Then their refusal to support people that suffered repeated failures from this indisputable design flaw was typical too.
Yet Volvo engines boats tend to sell more easily.
Go figure.

 

[SC35]

The steering ram in the water design by Volvo, who were very experienced in building out drives, was particularly stupid.
Then their refusal to support people that suffered repeated failures from this indisputable design flaw was typical too.
Yet Volvo engines boats tend to sell more easily.
Go figure.

The steering rams on mine lasted 12 years, which isn't too bad.

 

[ari]

10 boats in St Kat's this morning , one requires attention to get it home, as it happens the newest by far with 200 hours on the clock.
Most/ all the others are ancient 40 year old veterans with at least 1500 hours or more, all shaft drive of course..
All down to luck of course.
The skipper of course has decided enough is enough and has decided to change his luck .
The search for boat with shafts has already begun.

10 kayaks in St Martins this morning. One skipper dropped his paddle. As it happens, the newest kayak by far.
He's decided enough is enough and has decided to change his luck. He's going to swim everywhere in future.
The search for some armbands has already begun.

 

[ari]

The steering ram in the water design by Volvo, who were very experienced in building out drives, was particularly stupid.
Then their refusal to support people that suffered repeated failures from this indisputable design flaw was typical too.
Yet Volvo engines boats tend to sell more easily.
Go figure.

This is absolutely true. Unlike the trim rams, which you can protect by leaving the boat trimmed right down thus making sure that the shiny extending part of the ram is fully retracted inside the larger section, with the steering rams if you turn one way retracting the ram, you extend the one on the other side! The shiny parts would get crustacea growing on them and as soon as you started steering, the abrasion of the growth sliding in and out of the main part of the ram would wreck the seals which would start leaking. It was an absurd situation.

Volvo Penta fixed it eventually by putting little rubber bellows over them to stop the growth (you can see them on the steering rams in SC35's photo above), but a poor design initially and definitely not Volvo Penta's finest hour!

I always cringe when I see outdrives on boats on deepwater moorings like marinas left with the legs trimmed all the way up to the beaching position because they're inviting the above problem with the trim rams (and it can't be good for the bellows). I guess it's people who previously owned outboard engined boats where it's sensible to leave the outboard trimmed right up because it's then all clear of the water (not the case with outdrives).

 

[ingenious]

To provide a bit of balance, these are the outdrives on my 15 year old boat.
In a few days time, I might even be able to stand up straight and walk normally.

Antifoul splodges were rubbed off the anodes and blue tape removed after the picture was taken.



View attachment 192170

The ones on my new toy. Been pretty well maintained by the previous owner ( well, actually the service company he used) . The surveyor noted a few places where the antifoul needs touched up as an advisory but otherwise they were 'bieng!'



I must admit I was a bit nervous about buying a boat with sterndrives but the surveyor agreed with the opinion I'd got from many people - they need more maintenance but provided you allow for that, they have many advantages. Looking forward to taking her out for real.

 

[SC35]

This is absolutely true. Unlike the trim rams, which you can protect by leaving the boat trimmed right down thus making sure that the shiny extending part of the ram is fully retracted inside the larger section, with the steering rams if you turn one way retracting the ram, you extend the one on the other side! The shiny parts would get crustacea growing on them and as soon as you started steering, the abrasion of the growth sliding in and out of the main part of the ram would wreck the seals which would start leaking. It was an absurd situation.

Volvo Penta fixed it eventually by putting little rubber bellows over them to stop the growth (you can see them on the steering rams in SC35's photo above), but a poor design initially and definitely not Volvo Penta's finest hour!

I always cringe when I see outdrives on boats on deepwater moorings like marinas left with the legs trimmed all the way up to the beaching position because they're inviting the above problem with the trim rams (and it can't be good for the bellows). I guess it's people who previously owned outboard engined boats where it's sensible to leave the outboard trimmed right up because it's then all clear of the water (not the case with outdrives).

There is a major advantage to having the external steering rams, which is that the steering is more precise compared to my previous DP-E’s.
They had the option to change things on DP-I, but they chose to stick with it.
The latest rams do last longer - it was the initial batch that failed very early.

 

[ari]

There is a major advantage to having the external steering rams, which is that the steering is more precise compared to my previous DP-E’s.
They had the option to change things on DP-I, but they chose to stick with it.
The latest rams do last longer - it was the initial batch that failed very early.

Yes agree entirely. The basic idea was sound, just initially poorly executed (but now sorted).

 

[ontheplane]

Thing is Old Git - if you want a boat under 30ft and affordable with decent performance you have 2 choices - Outboard or Outdrive....

Most of us will buy the boat we want irrespective of the type of drive.

During my search for a boat over the last year or so I have seen zero that I would consider buying with anything other than outdrives.

Outboard powered 25' cruisers are still way out of my budget and there are no shaftdrive at that size that aren't old wrecks.

 

[oldgit]

10 kayaks in St Martins this morning. One skipper dropped his paddle. As it happens, the newest kayak by far.
He's decided enough is enough and has decided to change his luck. He's going to swim everywhere in future.
The search for some armbands has already begun.

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