The Wolves

[Jobs_a_ good_ un]

Hi All

Passing the wolves yesterday and got to see them at LW for the 1st time Nasty not suprised thers so many wrecks around them
Theres a nrth facing cardinal about 100 m off them which appears to mark the wrecks directly sth of the cardinal
Does anyone know why there is no buoy marking the wolves themselves or is the nrth cardinal supposed to do this as well
The wolves seem to be ne of the cardinal

Anyone know ?

Regards

 

[graham]

Havent got a chart to hand but from memory the Wolves North Cardinal Buoy marks the Northern extremity of the rocks and the wrecks.ie all the obstructions lie to the south of the buoy as you would expect).Wrecks can and do move so if you saw anything different to the chart report it to Trinity House.

If you saw rocks NE of the buoy then the buoy must be out of position.

 

[Jobs_a_ good_ un]

Well from memory I was heading from cardiff towards steepholm wich is sth
when I passed the cardinal the wolves were on my port side on the stern quarter
Due north was right behind me
The position of the buoy was nrth of the wrecks on my chart
which were obviously at some depth compared to the wolves which are drying and appeared to be 100 m to the ne of the buoy

 

[Severnman]

The Wolves rocks are marked by that N. Cardinal - it is the name assigned to the buoy. Though not specifically intended to mark the wrecks the buoy obviously indicates safe water to the north. Buoy out of position possible - it's not one that usually goes walkies though. Probably me you saw off Steep Holm by the way. Wasnt a bad day!

 

[Alcyone]

My electronic charts show the bouy to the NW of the rocks, a couple of hundred metres.

 

[matelot]

the cardinal is to the NW of the rocks so that any ship passing to the north of the holms using the deepwater channel for Cardiff will pass to the N of the wolves and to the south of the red channel mark and the lavernock cardinal.

ships not going to cardiff pass between the holms, to the south of the channel buoy. Big ships (thats what the buoys are there for) dont go between the wolves cardinal and the holms - there isnt really room and its mostly shallow anyway.

 

[Severnman]

Note not all ships bound for beyond Cardiff pass between the Holms. Vessels bound for Newport and beyond frequently pass North of Flat Holm. Disagree that buoyage systems are for big ships - bit of a sweeping statement.

 

[Csail]

Have you seen the anchors on there. I was amazed.

 

[matelot]

[ QUOTE ]
Disagree that buoyage systems are for big ships - bit of a sweeping statement.

[/ QUOTE ]
True its a sweeping statement and you could no doubt point to the buoys marking the channel into the barrage as being specifically for us. But the main Trinity house buoys and the ABP ones are placed to mark the channels for big ships, not for us as a quick glance at the depth contours would show. And of course who pays the dues that finance the buoys?

Same thing applies to port surveys. They are paid for mostly by the harbour authorities and cover mostly only the areas relevant to big ships.

 

[chrishelen]

Its quite easy to get sucked onto the wolves as i can testify lucky for me there was about 4 foot under me but it was a nasty moment, you live and learn.

 

[Blue_Pearl]

I was amazed at how far away from the cardinal buoy The Wolves were ! Is there a standard that defines maximum distance that the hazard marked by the cardinal should be ?

 

[graham]

Its a good point about surveys.Some lesser used bits of the channel may not have been fully surveyed for over a hundred years.

Approaches to some of the ports are almost constantly being surveyed.

Link here to pic of the wolves from Diogenes last year on here. Wolves

 

[Jobs_a_ good_ un]

Not just how far but surley the wolves nrth cardinal should have the hazard to the sth of it
Thus meaning passage to the nrth is safe
Cardinals mark safe passage past hazards for all ships and vessels not just big ships

 

[Jobs_a_ good_ un]

Were you the blue hulled boat to the nrth as we approached steepholm ?

 

[graham]

If there was rock showing North East from the wolves Buoy the only explanation is the buoy is off its station.

I think the normal thing after a report like that is for the VTS to ask ships in the area to confirm before Trinity house gets called in.

 

[Severnman]

That's right Jobs... yacht Jolie from Portishead. Motored against a head wind all the way down but a reasonable sail back - still it beat painting the hall all day!

 

[Severnman]

Scratch the distance is probably relative. The actual distance off a danger and its precise positioning will often depend on practicalities eg holding ground, ability for TH vessels to safely recover and inspect etc.

 

[Jobs_a_ good_ un]

Spoke to severn vts today and informed them
They told me they had a pilot boat check it out said it was ok
I then asked did the pilot actually see the rocks to which they replied no
So quite how they could check out the position without 1st identifying where the hazard was is a mystery to me
as we went past the cardinal the wolves were at least 60-70 m away towards flatholm our position was parallel with the cardinal heading towards steeplholm with nrth on our stern

 

[graham]

They didnt need to check the position of the rocks,only the buoy,they probably lay close to it for a few minutes to check its lat and long was as per the chart.

I took these pictures passing North of the Wolves Buoy at LW today the highest part of the rock was just awash on todays tide .The rocks are between the buoy and Flatholme as normal.

Nice SSE breeze going down channel but went off light after the tide turned.Hove too down towards North one Fathom to heat up some Morrisons Chunky Beef and Chilli Soup a king among soups will be stocking up on it .

 

[graham]

Just overheard the Trinity House Ship Patricia confirm the buoy is correctly on station.Apparently they were working in this area anyway so were able to check it out.