The UK should have stopped Eric Hiscock and Wanderer III

Avocet said:
...They had even less equipment than the Hiscocks and weren't even 100% sure the earth was even round!.
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You're certainly right about the 100% bit, and no doubt some of the mariners on board held the more primitive view. But as I daresay you realise the notion that conventional wisdom in Columbus' time supported a flat earth is false. (Not that this stopped them teaching many of us the same falsehood at school.)

This from Wiki:
"Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.

The misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as "The Myth of the Flat Earth". In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history."

I'm not sure the Hiscocks cared too much what shape it was: they just enjoyed exploring it under sail. Special people.

One of the funnier encounters Slocum had was being guest of honour for sailing (almost) around the globe, thrown by the PM of South Africa, Paul Kruger, who just happened to be a devout flat-earther. As the Yanks say, go figure.
 
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What's utterly appalling is that Eric Hiscock hadn't carried out a Risk Assesment & filed it with a club flag officer ! :rolleyes:

Do remember Miles & Beryl Smeeton on 'Tzu Hang', and the Hamiltons with 'Salmo' & other Vertues & similar, all must have heard of Elf N Safety in the forecast so set off and legged it ! :)

To be fair, I used to go around an airfield with a H & S bod in the 1980's, and everything he mentioned seemed good common sense; not so sure now it's become the major industry instead of making aeroplanes...
 
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macd said:
You're certainly right about the 100% bit, and no doubt some of the mariners on board held the more primitive view. But as I daresay you realise the notion that conventional wisdom in Columbus' time supported a flat earth is false. (Not that this stopped them teaching many of us the same falsehood at school.)

This from Wiki:
"Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.

The misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as "The Myth of the Flat Earth". In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history."

I'm not sure the Hiscocks cared too much what shape it was: they just enjoyed exploring it under sail. Special people.

One of the funnier encounters Slocum had was being guest of honour for sailing (almost) around the globe, thrown by the PM of South Africa, Paul Kruger, who just happened to be a devout flat-earther. As the Yanks say, go figure.
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Aye, the words were carefully chosen! I knew (some of!) that, but certainly not all of it! I'm sure he'd have had a niggling doubt at the back of his mind though - and I'm sure managing that fear amongst the crew would have been a big problem in itself.
 
...on a more serious note, of course, we need to think about what sort of technology was available to these daring and worthy adventurers of bygone times. and whether any of them would have availed themselves of it, had it been available to them. By "available to them" I also include "affordable", by the way.

I'm in absolutely no danger of doing anything remotely that heroic, but if I was, I do wonder whether I'd have a moral duty to use at least some of the kit on the original list?
 
Avocet said:
... I do wonder whether I'd have a moral duty to use at least some of the kit on the original list?
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I often don't turn the GPS on in the Solent. OTOH, I'd say that anyone who sets off to go out of sight of land, or in an area such as the Thames Estuary where precise navigation is critical, without a GPS is being a little foolish. It's so cheap relative to the other costs of boat ownership that it just seems daft not to.

I don't know if it's a moral duty, though, and and I don't want to get all elfin safety about it. I'd especially hate to see anything become mandatory 'cos, before we know it, we'll have a list of obligatory kit that would sink my little boat, just to go across to the Isle of Wight from Pompey.
 
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Avocet said:
I'm in absolutely no danger of doing anything remotely that heroic, but if I was, I do wonder whether I'd have a moral duty to use at least some of the kit on the original list?
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I think anyone would be silly these days to ignore the availability of GPS. I also think that setting off long-distance without a windvane (or some other effective self-steering) is making life difficult for oneself unnecessarily (even if you can't afford a brand-new Aries or Monitor, there are plans out there for home-built gear that needn't cost too much).

There are plenty of other things on that list I might want to have, but none are necessities.

Unless you're leaving dependants ashore, I can't see where any moral duty might come from.

Pete
 
Stemar said:
I often don't turn the GPS on in the Solent. OTOH, I'd say that anyone who sets off to go out of sight of land, or in an area such as the Thames Estuary where precise navigation is critical, without a GPS is being a little foolish. It's so cheap relative to the other costs of boat ownership that it just seems daft not to.

I don't know if it's a moral duty, though, and and I don't want to get all elfin safety about it. I'd especially hate to see anything become mandatory 'cos, before we know it, we'll have a list of obligatory kit that would sink my little boat, just to go across to the Isle of Wight from Pompey.
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What about your DSC?

No GPS, no position to send when red button pressed. :D
 
ghostlymoron said:
Don't forget that, as recently as 1968?, RKJ circumnavigated the world solo, non-stop, without all the teckie you list. I think even his radio packed up for a long period.
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And Moitessier went half way round again! With just a catapault for communications. Definitely inspiring.

But he does write that "one day there will be a liitle box which talks to the satellites and will tell you exactly where you are at the touch of a button". (Can't remember if it was in "The long way" or not )

You don't need very much out there but some of it is just fantastically increadably useful, I reckon the Smeetons, Moitessier, Hiscocks and all the rest would have embraced whatever affordable technology they could get their hands on. Why make life harder than it is already? :)

Though luckily we live in a country where no-one can stop you. :cool:
 
The Hiscock and Moitessier books were what made me want to go ocean sailing. They were the most amazing people. One interesting thing to me was the Hiscocks changed from a wooden first boat to steel on their last. Good job they did because it was the only time they hit a reef, off Australia. Moitessier also had a steel boat which, with the Hiscocks, was one reason we bought one. The truism being is if you sail for long enough something will hit you or you will hit something. We got hit twice, the first time would have sunk a wood or GRP boat.
 
KellysEye said:
The Hiscock and Moitessier books were what made me want to go ocean sailing. They were the most amazing people. One interesting thing to me was the Hiscocks changed from a wooden first boat to steel on their last. Good job they did because it was the only time they hit a reef, off Australia. Moitessier also had a steel boat which, with the Hiscocks, was one reason we bought one. The truism being is if you sail for long enough something will hit you or you will hit something. We got hit twice, the first time would have sunk a wood or GRP boat.
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Not quite correct.

Hiscock's last boat was wood built by Ray Roberts in Whangerei NZ.

I'm sure there was an article about it way back - it didn't sail as he would like.

I'm not really into the only boat for 'Round the World' is steel hype. Tends to lead to arrogance in the owners - probably that's why they end up on reefs :rolleyes:.

Loads of placky boats circling the globe - even AWBs :eek:
 
W5 had weather helm. IIRC they redesigned the rudder which helped a bit.
Not sure (he) was that keen on Wanderer 4 either-all that pre 2pack paint steelwork rusting continuously and needing attention-and by all accounts he was meticulous about maintenance.
Heard one story that they hove to before a Caribbean arrival in order to touch up the varnish work.
I still have an early "Cruising under sail" edition which I carry on board, plenty sound wisdom there-and he dedicates it to Roger Pinckney for teaching he himself to sail without fuss-in a large, engineless gaff pilotboat type. Respect!
 
Blueboatman said:
Not sure (he) was that keen on Wanderer 4 either-all that pre 2pack paint steelwork rusting continuously and needing attention-and by all accounts he was meticulous about maintenance.
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That's the feeling I recall but it's so long ago since I read his books properly I couldn't be certain.

Wanderer III is iconic - Wanderer IV is not (IMO).
 
Stemar said:
I often don't turn the GPS on in the Solent. OTOH, I'd say that anyone who sets off to go out of sight of land, or in an area such as the Thames Estuary where precise navigation is critical, without a GPS is being a little foolish. It's so cheap relative to the other costs of boat ownership that it just seems daft not to.

I don't know if it's a moral duty, though, and and I don't want to get all elfin safety about it. I'd especially hate to see anything become mandatory 'cos, before we know it, we'll have a list of obligatory kit that would sink my little boat, just to go across to the Isle of Wight from Pompey.
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Three years or so ago a Legend 36 set out across the Thames Estuary with a GPS. There were intermittent power failures and the GPS took some time to restablish position. In, I believe, Black Deep approaching Foulgers Gat this happened and the boat went aground and had to be towed to Ramesgate by the RNLI, seriously damaged.
One wonders whether if she had been navigated/piloted by traditional methods this would have happened!
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
Three years or so ago a Legend 36 set out across the Thames Estuary with a GPS. There were intermittent power failures and the GPS took some time to restablish position. In, I believe, Black Deep approaching Foulgers Gat this happened and the boat went aground and had to be towed to Ramesgate by the RNLI, seriously damaged.
One wonders whether if she had been navigated/piloted by traditional methods this would have happened!
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The two are not mutually exclusive. A GPS just gives you fixes; I'm too young to have navigated (though I sailed) before GPS was around but I can't imagine a pre-GPS navigator turning down the opportunity for an instant accurate fix at any time - or even "most of the time except during intermittent power glitches".

If it was a plotter going down on the other hand, taking the "chart" with it, then you're probably right - but I don't really like plotters anyway :)

Pete
 
KellysEye said:
The Hiscock and Moitessier books were what made me want to go ocean sailing. They were the most amazing people. One interesting thing to me was the Hiscocks changed from a wooden first boat to steel on their last. Good job they did because it was the only time they hit a reef, off Australia. Moitessier also had a steel boat which, with the Hiscocks, was one reason we bought one. The truism being is if you sail for long enough something will hit you or you will hit something. We got hit twice, the first time would have sunk a wood or GRP boat.
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Not quite correct. They also put Wanderer III on a reef in the Northern Territory. She survived quite happily although at the time they thought they had lost her.
 
Robin said:
Welcome!

You will do well to remember also that many on here will not cross Southampton Water let alone the Solent without all those gizmos, plus the AIS must be a transmitting version, there should be an active radar transponder and of course a full radar set with MARPA, all capable of being overlaid onto a colour plotter with stations at the wheel and the navigation table.:eek:
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And quite right. If you can afford them, you would be a fool not to have all the advantages that modern technology can give you.

Or would you rather have cotton sails, hemp rope, a wooden hull and a sextant?

I really dont see the point of the OPs post. I am sure that the Hiscocks would have used all the available modern technology now available if they had been sailing today. They werent sentimental fools.
 
flensdorf said:
Hello this is my first posting here.
Just finished "Around the world in Wanderer III". Reading all the other books.
To my dismay the UK authorities did not stop Mr and Mrs Hiscock leaving the UK for a circumnavigation 1952-1954!! I was one years old when they started.
Only a
30 feet wooden yacht!!!
NO ais
NO ssb radio
NO gribfiles
NO sat-com
NO fridge
NO vindwane steering
NO roller headsail
NO shower
NO ipad
NO computer
NO diesel engine
NO aux. generator
NO solar panels
NO vhf
NO gps
NO ....
No ....
But they had (only)
a sextant
a ships clock
a walker trailing log
a shortwave reciever
a 2 stroke engine 4 HP generating 40W
no reverse gear only forward.

The Hiscocks, Eric and Susan remains a big inspiration for me!

Was the waves and weather different in the 1950ies??

Lets see what you sail gurus think?

Have a happy and healthy 2012 lots of fun and lots of sailing!
Erland
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What Quals did they have :cool:
 
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