The trouble with harnesses

[Nostrodamus]

I know it goes against safety but I am not a big fan of Harnesses.

I imagine the basic design has not changed in decades.

The problem is that they always seem to get caught on something at the wrong time, they get in the way and seem too long. I imagine if I went over the side I would be dragged along in the water.

I do have a cutter built into my life jacket but what is the point of wearing the harness if you need to cut it?

Do they make a harness that is adjustable? When helming I want it short so I am going to be held in the cockpit, when moving along the side of the boat in rough weather I am partially crouched so I want it a little longer but still short enough to keep me on the boat but there are times when I want it a little longer when working on something.

There must be something better than I have seen to date.

 

[neil1967]

A three point harness (one short strop, one long) gives you some degree of choice, albeit at the expense of extra weight - I use one where necessary. You can also get ones with elasticated strops that stay out of the way but ultimately should help stop you going over the side.

Neil

 

[Nostrodamus]

A three point harness (one short strop, one long) gives you some degree of choice, albeit at the expense of extra weight - I use one where necessary. You can also get ones with elasticated strops that stay out of the way but ultimately should help stop you going over the side.

Neil

I have seen the elasticated ones but I still think they are too long if you get thrown. I would like one that had something to extend or shorten it quickly so I could ajust it to what I need to do without undoing it.

 

[Daydream believer]

3 point ones are an absolute pain
you always end up with one clip flaying about getting tangled in things
Really the answer is just to get used to using the standard line.
I have fairly slack jack lines on the side deck so that when I stand on the cabin top to work on the mainsail the jack lines raise up to give me the extra height i need
not really a good idea but helps to keep safety line shorter
If you think about it, if you are going over the side does it really matter if the safety line is a foot longer or not.
In fact ( in theory) if it was longer than your boat you would not hit the side when being towed along & as you could not get aboard a moving boat unaided then you might be a bit safer until the crew ( if you have one) got to your aid. Not that I would try it!!!!!

 

[Nostrodamus]

If you were single handed and went over the side with a harness the chances are you would never get back aboard anyway.

 

[michael_w]

SWMBO and nearly always sail double handed. We usually rig 7 leashes as a matter of course. The side deck jackstays have the 3 clip type. There are 2 leashes at the forward end of the cockpit and 2 at the aft end. There is a final one on the stern so one can reach the vane gear safely. We move from leash to leash, never becoming unclipped.

The Special Regulations suggest having fixed leashes at work stations, ie: mast, helm, etc.

 

[oldbilbo]

I know it goes against safety but I am not a big fan of Harnesses. I imagine the basic design has not changed in decades.

The problem is that they always seem to get caught on something at the wrong time, they get in the way and seem too long. I imagine if I went over the side I would be dragged along in the water. I do have a cutter built into my life jacket but what is the point of wearing the harness if you need to cut it?

Do they make a harness that is adjustable? When helming I want it short so I am going to be held in the cockpit, when moving along the side of the boat in rough weather I am partially crouched so I want it a little longer but still short enough to keep me on the boat but there are times when I want it a little longer when working on something. There must be something better than I have seen to date.

We need to differentiate between 'harnesses' and 'personal tethers'.

There's a harness of sorts built into the two foulie jackets I have. I've added crutch straps. I also have a climbers' chest harness, with crutch straps, to wear over my drysuit or when wearing no foulie jacket.

Tethers? These days I put my faith in 'em, 'cos I no longer believe I am immortal. And I firmly believe in not going over the side again, so Nostrod's point about 'adjustable' has some validity.

I carry two in my bag. There are always several others on board. As with anchor chain left in t'locker - and more important than lifejackets IMHO - they're useless unless worn, so just like 'michael_w' I drape them about the cockpit, with one dangling INSIDE the companionway so a crewman/me can clip on before coming up....then re-attach to another.

I had reservations about the strength of many on the market - they are or were far inferior to rock climbers'/cavers' kit - so I made up my own to required length by purchasing a couple of Gibb commercial carabiners ( fall arrest gear ) and a sewn loop from a climbers' shop.

The loop is just long enough for me to stand up and reach stuff on the cockpit. When I need to go forward, crouched, I pass the free-end clip around the jackstay and doubled-back to the ring on my chest harness. When it's wild and I need to work on the foredeck, I use two to hold me in place while wrestling with that loose anchor or 'storm jib in a bag'.....

Should more adjustment really be wanted, one could look at the kit used by tree-surgeons/arborealists. That's adjustable, but one needs to learn how to use it and check it before and during every single occasion of use.

 

[Neeves]

We go with Oldbilbo and use climbing harness, thigh, waist and chest straps. They fit snug and can actually be worn for long periods without really noticing. I also use mine if I need to do any mast work, though because the load tends to be on the thighs they can be uncomfortable for long periods. The attachment point tends to be lower than a normal harness so you can be puller 'higher' (makes it easier to work on the crane).

We use conventional 3 part tethers. We do not find the unused part a nuisance, it simply sits in a pocket. We have lots of tethers and its impossible not to find one as we leave them strategically placed, but if we went over the side on autopilot when alone on deck - you would not have a cat in hells chance of getting yourself back on board. So, single handed, tethers have a value similar to liferings.

Jonathan

 

[Keen_Ed]

Seen a good suggestion on another thread (?SA?) about having fixed tethers at the mast/forestay. Just long enough to let you do the job.

 

[maby]

If you fall overboard wearing a safety line and have a cutter on your lifejacket, you can be free in seconds. If you fall overboard without a safety line attached, nothing on your life jacket is going to suddenly attach one.

 

[maby]

Seen a good suggestion on another thread (?SA?) about having fixed tethers at the mast/forestay. Just long enough to let you do the job.

Not sure about that, but I certainly wear a safety line when I'm working at the mast - I loop it round the mast and attach both ends to my safety harness - leaves both hands free to work.

 

[KellysEye]

>Do they make a harness that is adjustable?

Ours are and I thought they all are. As said there should be one long and one short tether. For the spare clip we tied a loop of string to the front of the harnes and clipped to that.

 

[bbg]

SWMBO and nearly always sail double handed. We usually rig 7 leashes as a matter of course. The side deck jackstays have the 3 clip type. There are 2 leashes at the forward end of the cockpit and 2 at the aft end. There is a final one on the stern so one can reach the vane gear safely. We move from leash to leash, never becoming unclipped.

The Special Regulations suggest having fixed leashes at work stations, ie: mast, helm, etc.

That's how I sailed solo. Two tethers: one long one in the cockpit, and a three-point tether on the high side jackstay.

When sitting in the cockpit I effectively reduced the length of the long tether by taking a turn around a free winch.

 

[John.edwards]

When I need to go forward, crouched, I pass the free-end clip around the jackstay and doubled-back to the ring on my chest harness. When it's wild and I need to work on the foredeck, I use two to hold me in place while wrestling with that loose anchor or 'storm jib in a bag'.....

+1 I use a 3 point tether usually, but a standard (long) tether doubled around the jackstay works for me too

 

[Daydream believer]

With reference to getting back on board i met a norwegian sailor who has a slack line rigged along each side( outside the guard rail at gunwhale level) with a bungee to tension them. He has a short (200mm) spare line on his harness.
If he falls over he will attach the short tether to the line then cut the main tether
This will allow him to slide to the back of the boat where he can climb back over the stern because the bungees will allow the line to form a short bight at the stern. The end of the line at the stern was attached high up so the bight would have the tendency to raise him up out of the water a bit keeping his head up high
I have not installed it but might do as when he explained & showed me the set up on his stern it seemed better than no chance at all

 

[Nostrodamus]

With reference to getting back on board i met a norwegian sailor who has a slack line rigged along each side( outside the guard rail at gunwhale level) with a bungee to tension them. He has a short (200mm) spare line on his harness.
If he falls over he will attach the short tether to the line then cut the main tether
This will allow him to slide to the back of the boat where he can climb back over the stern because the bungees will allow the line to form a short bight at the stern. The end of the line at the stern was attached high up so the bight would have the tendency to raise him up out of the water a bit keeping his head up high
I have not installed it but might do as when he explained & showed me the set up on his stern it seemed better than no chance at all

Sounds an excellent idea if sailing alone

 

[Daydream believer]

Sounds an excellent idea if sailing alone

I have to --- nobody likes me!!

 

[SeamanStaines]

Ok, my three h'pence worth

Design has moved on over the years, most harnesses are integrated with life jackets now which is a good idea, however a self inflating one might not be.

In my opinion, with the height of the safety lines and the slack in the systems irrespective of how short they are, you will go over the side! Now you are potentially in a far more dangerous position than if you had simply fallen off, pinned against the boat, unable to move and probably drowning at the waterline.

I actually build slack into my system, if you go over the side our elasticated jack stays will keep you with the boat but put you at the stern being towed, which I think is much safer. People have drowned because of the tether holding them close to the side of the boat, perhaps upside down and right on the waterline. A crew has very little time to deal with this, and in my experience (from many years diving) pinned to the side of the boat and nearly drowning you are not going to be able to calmly find your knife and cut the tether. The elasticated lines give you sufficient movement to be able to get to the mast without unclipping.

They are just as outlined in the previous post, over length webbing with a bungee inside

 

[robertt]

What do folks think of passing the safety line under the jackstay then back to the harness so that both clips are on the harness? I was thinking of doing this as a way of shortening (halving) the length of the safety line.

I see oldbilbo also mentioned this option

 

[oldbilbo]

The primary object is to arrange that, in the event of a fall/slip, one stays inside the guardrails.....

I've seen lots of webbing jackstays which are typically arranged along the sidedecks such that they offer next to no restraint until someone is over the side. That individual is then being pulled along hard against the side, with little prospect of self-help/self-recovery.

Further, many of those webbing jackstays stretch significantly when wet, and 'snake' about underfoot. I'm probably not alone in having 'measured my length' due to one of these sliding away underfoot. Perhaps that's why the folk who agree the The ISAF Special Regs recommend 5mm stainless 1x19 wire rope, or 20kN (2,040 kgf or 4,500 lbf) min breaking strain webbing. Although I have some of these webbing lines in the loft, I'm none too happy about fitting them. I can see me being pitched over the bow, then being swept back along the hull, with the stretchy jackstay pulled up and over the lifelines and stanchions.

There must be a better way....

Now, I offer this notion not as a fully-formed solution, but a 'starter' for discussion and improvement. How about the prospect of an ISAF spec line from about the corner of the coachroof, led forward 'taut' around the base of the mast, then back 'taut' to the other coachroof corner. That would permit one to get forward to the mast and, using a short ( doubled-back? ) personal tether, have enhanced prospect of being retained on board in event of a slip. Another single line secured in a loop around the mast-base and under the first, then led 'taut' to a point in the centre of the foredeck - but just short of any cutter stay tack-point - and used again with a doubled-back tether, would facilitate access to all points on the foredeck. One would clip from one line to the other at the mast.

Is there perhaps some merit in exploring this 'centreline' solution?