The Statutory Residence Test and using a boat as an overseas home.

[Dogone]

To qualify as a non-resident under the SRT regime one of the main initial hurdles is you need to have an overseas home in which you spend 30 days or more. I qualify as far as I can tell by living on my boat rather a lot and more than in the UK. It’s also available to me year round and I seem to have clocked the right number of days to pass the other tests. Here’s the guidance:

RDRM13050 - Residence: The SRT: Annex A: The principles and characteristics of a home for the purposes of the SRT - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

The HMRC manual apparently allows a boat to satisfy the definition of an overseas home, but often tax is hideously complicated at the margins and all the more so the more there is at stake. Of course professional advice will be sought, but firstly I’m posting this as it will be of interest to many boaters and secondly I hope to learn from discussing this.

Another interesting issue is if the boat moves to different countries if the different locations have different day counts for the purpose of the test of presence in the overseas home for more days than the UK home.

Can anyone share their experience of the SRT with having the boat (or not) as a qualifying overseas home?

 

[Seastoke]

Might be better in liverboard forum.

 

[Dogone]

Might be better in liverboard forum.

Thanks. BTW. I’m not from Liverpool.

 

[Seastoke]

Thanks. BTW. I’m not from Liverpool.

I was pooling my resources

 

[jfm]

To qualify as a non-resident under the SRT regime one of the main initial hurdles is you need to have an overseas home in which you spend 30 days or more. I qualify as far as I can tell by living on my boat rather a lot and more than in the UK. It’s also available to me year round and I seem to have clocked the right number of days to pass the other tests. Here’s the guidance:

RDRM13050 - Residence: The SRT: Annex A: The principles and characteristics of a home for the purposes of the SRT - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

The HMRC manual apparently allows a boat to satisfy the definition of an overseas home, but often tax is hideously complicated at the margins and all the more so the more there is at stake. Of course professional advice will be sought, but firstly I’m posting this as it will be of interest to many boaters and secondly I hope to learn from discussing this.

Another interesting issue is if the boat moves to different countries if the different locations have different day counts for the purpose of the test of presence in the overseas home for more days than the UK home.

Can anyone share their experience of the SRT with having the boat (or not) as a qualifying overseas home?

1. The basic answer is close to no I'm afraid. What follows is a heavy post - suggest buckle up and make yourself a cup of coffee

2. You're asking a very precise legal question so you need to take with pinch of salt all replies from folks who are just chipping in ideas without proper legal knowledge. You won't find anyone with meaningful experience of relying on a boat qualifying as a home within the SRT, and even if you did their circs will be different from yours.

3. Regarding your first sentence, it doesn't have to be a hurdle. It's only a hurdle if you are seeking to be SRT non resident under the "ties test". It's not a hurdle if (a) you become SRT non resident under. say, one of the automatic non res tests and (b) if you limit yourself to max 30 days in any UK home that you have. But I assume you know all that, so I won't go down that rabbit hole and won't try to answer questions you haven't asked.

4. As a general point, do not rely too much on HMRC's website/manuals, nor use an adviser who over relies on those things. Rely on the law. The law relevant to your question is FA2013, sch45, Para 25, which says this:

25 (1) A person’s home could be a building or part of a building or, for example, a
vehicle, vessel or structure of any kind.
(2) Whether, for a given building, vehicle, vessel, structure or the like, there is a
sufficient degree of permanence or stability about P’s arrangements there for
the place to count as P’s home (or one of P’s homes) will depend on all the
circumstances of the case.
(3) But somewhere that P uses periodically as nothing more than a holiday
home or temporary retreat (or something similar) does not count as a home
of P’s.
(4) A place may count as a home of P’s whether or not P holds any estate or
interest in it (and references to “having” a home are to be read accordingly).

4. Your link goes to HMRC's comments on the "good news" part of test, subpara 1. A boat can be a home, if it is actually used as a home. But you need to read on to the next HMRC page, or more precisely subparagraph (3) above, which overrides subpara (1). You have to get over the hurdle (and, depending on where you are in the life cycle of being non res under the SRT, an onus of proof) of showing that your boat isn't "nothing more than a holiday home or temporary retreat (or something similar)" The words in brackets are pretty powerful ie is your boat merely similar to a holiday home even if it isn't actually a holiday home. I think you start from a good place in that your boat is (I think) a 25m sailing boat, so quite big, but the cross examination will come in the form of questions like these (and I'm guessing your circs, obviously) (a) is it the case your friends and relatives stay at your land home but not on your boat, or when on the boat do they see it as a holiday or a visit to your home? (b) where are your important documents kept like deeds to house, etc etc - your land home or on the boat? (c) do you quote the boat's location as your address ever, and in what circumstances?

5. Remember HMRC are not allowed to compromise on points like this, due to the rules in their LST. So if you get into a fight it will be a binary outcome - you win or lose 100%; no compromises or 50/50 outcomes.

6. In your shoes, if a material amount of tax depends on it, I would not rely on your boat being a home. I would either (i) get myself a proper land-based overseas home; (ii) rent out/sell my land based UK home so I have no place that could qualify as a UK home; (ii) limit myself to 30 days maximum in any UK home in each tax year; or (iv) get myself into one of the other cases where one can be SRT non resident without caring about homes. On that last point, and I'm guessing a bit, it seems to me from your other posts that you're either already non res under the "3rd automatic non resident test" (para 14) or quite close to it so that with a bit of lifestyle tweaking you could get into it, at which point the question of whether your boat is a home becomes irrelevant. Also I would keep meticulous contemporaneous records.

7. I'm writing all this in a bit of an information vacuum. To answer properly I would need other data like how much tax is at stake, how many years of SRT non residence do you already have under your belt, your actual boat usage calendar, your work life and how close you are to auto non res 3rd test, and so on. But that begins to answer a question you didn't ask, and so on the question you did ask I would say that having your boat accepted as a home is not impossible but is a very big mountain to climb, so make a few changes and avoid that mountain if you can. Read/dwell on FA2013, sch45, Para 25(3) a lot.

8. Regarding the separate question in your penultimate paragraph, the boat would count as one home even in multiple countries, so if you were on it 15 days in country A and 15 days in country B, that would count is one lot of 30, not two lots of 15, subject to the proviso that both countries A and B are non UK. That's clear from the statute.

 

[Dogone]

1. The basic answer is close to no I'm afraid. What follows is a heavy post - suggest buckle up and make yourself a cup of coffee

2. You're asking a very precise legal question so you need to take with pinch of salt all replies from folks who are just chipping in ideas without proper legal knowledge. You won't find anyone with meaningful experience of relying on a boat qualify as a home within the SRT, and even if you did their circs will be different from yours.

3. Regarding your first sentence, it doesn't have to be a hurdle. It's only a hurdle if you are seeking to be SRT non resident under the "ties test". It's not a hurdle if (a) you become SRT non resident under. say, one of the automatic non res tests and (b) if you limit yourself to max 30 days in any UK home that you have. But I assume you know all that, so I won't go down that rabbit hole and won't try to answer questions you haven't asked.

4. As a general point, do rely too much on HMRC's website/manuals, nor use an adviser who over relies on those things. Rely on the law. The law relevant to your question is FA2013, sch45, Para 25, which says this:

25 (1) A person’s home could be a building or part of a building or, for example, a
vehicle, vessel or structure of any kind.
(2) Whether, for a given building, vehicle, vessel, structure or the like, there is a
sufficient degree of permanence or stability about P’s arrangements there for
the place to count as P’s home (or one of P’s homes) will depend on all the
circumstances of the case.
(3) But somewhere that P uses periodically as nothing more than a holiday
home or temporary retreat (or something similar) does not count as a home
of P’s.
(4) A place may count as a home of P’s whether or not P holds any estate or
interest in it (and references to “having” a home are to be read accordingly).

4. Your link goes to HMRC's comments on the "good news" part of test, subpara 1. A boat can be a home, if it is actually used as a home. But you need to read on to the next HMRC page, or more precisely subparagraph 3, which overrides subpara 1. You have to get over the hurdle (and, depending on where you are in the life cycle of being non res under the SRT, an onus of proof) of showing that your boat isn't "nothing more than a holiday home or temporary retreat (or something similar)" The words in brackets are pretty powerful ie is your boat merely similar to a holiday home even if it isn't actually a holiday home. I think you start from a good place in that your boat is (I think) a 25m sailing boat, so quite big, but the cross examination will come in the form of questions like these (and I'm guessing your circs, obviously) (a) is it the case your friends and relatives stay at your land home but not on your boat, or when on the boat do they see it as a holiday or a visit to your home? (b) where are your important documents kept like deeds to house, etc etc - your land home or on the boat? (c) do you quote the boat's location as your address ever, and in what circumstances?

5. Remember HMRC are not allowed to compromise on points like this, due to the rules in their LST. So if you get into a fight it will be a binary outcome - you win or lose 100%; no compromises or 50/50 outcomes.

6. In your shoes, if a material amount of tax depends on it, I would not rely on your boat being a home. I would either (i) get myself a proper land-based overseas home; (ii) rent out/sell my land based UK home so I have no place that could qualify as a UK home; (ii) limit myself to 30 days maximum in any UK home in each tax year; or (iv) get myself into one of the other cases where one can be SRT non resident without caring about homes. On that last point, and I'm guessing a bit, it seems to me from your other posts that you're either already non res under the "3rd automatic non resident test" (para 14) or quite close to it so that with a bit of lifestyle tweaking you could get into it, at which point the question of whether your boat is a home becomes irrelevant. Also I would keep meticulous contemporaneous records.

7. I'm writing all this in a bit of an information vacuum. To answer properly I would need other data like how much tax is at stake, how many years of SRT non residence do you already have under your belt, your actual boat usage calendar, your work life and how close you are to auto non res 3rd test, and so on. But that begins to answer a question you didn't ask, and so on the question you did ask I would say that having your boat accepted as a home is not impossible but is a very big mountain to climb, so make a few changes and avoid that battle if you can. Read/dwell on FA2013, sch45, Para 25(3) a lot.

8. Regarding the separate question in your penultimate paragraph, the boat would count as one home even in multiple countries, so if you were on it 15 days in country A and 15 days in country B, that would count is one lot of 30, not two lots of 15, subject to the proviso that both countries A and B are non UK. That's clear from the statute.

Brilliant! Love it. HUGE thanks. I’ve spent the last two hours reading that and your links, but I’ve now got brain fade - it’s late and I can’t concentrate. I’ll give you a proper reply tomorrow.

 

[Dogone]

1. The basic answer is close to no I'm afraid. What follows is a heavy post - suggest buckle up and make yourself a cup of coffee

2. You're asking a very precise legal question so you need to take with pinch of salt all replies from folks who are just chipping in ideas without proper legal knowledge. You won't find anyone with meaningful experience of relying on a boat qualifying as a home within the SRT, and even if you did their circs will be different from yours.

3. Regarding your first sentence, it doesn't have to be a hurdle. It's only a hurdle if you are seeking to be SRT non resident under the "ties test". It's not a hurdle if (a) you become SRT non resident under. say, one of the automatic non res tests and (b) if you limit yourself to max 30 days in any UK home that you have. But I assume you know all that, so I won't go down that rabbit hole and won't try to answer questions you haven't asked.

4. As a general point, do not rely too much on HMRC's website/manuals, nor use an adviser who over relies on those things. Rely on the law. The law relevant to your question is FA2013, sch45, Para 25, which says this:

25 (1) A person’s home could be a building or part of a building or, for example, a
vehicle, vessel or structure of any kind.
(2) Whether, for a given building, vehicle, vessel, structure or the like, there is a
sufficient degree of permanence or stability about P’s arrangements there for
the place to count as P’s home (or one of P’s homes) will depend on all the
circumstances of the case.
(3) But somewhere that P uses periodically as nothing more than a holiday
home or temporary retreat (or something similar) does not count as a home
of P’s.
(4) A place may count as a home of P’s whether or not P holds any estate or
interest in it (and references to “having” a home are to be read accordingly).

SNIPPED TO GET UNDER 1000 characters

7. I'm writing all this in a bit of an information vacuum. To answer properly I would need other data like how much tax is at stake, how many years of SRT non residence do you already have under your belt, your actual boat usage calendar, your work life and how close you are to auto non res 3rd test, and so on. But that begins to answer a question you didn't ask, and so on the question you did ask I would say that having your boat accepted as a home is not impossible but is a very big mountain to climb, so make a few changes and avoid that mountain if you can. Read/dwell on FA2013, sch45, Para 25(3) a lot.

8. Regarding the separate question in your penultimate paragraph, the boat would count as one home even in multiple countries, so if you were on it 15 days in country A and 15 days in country B, that would count is one lot of 30, not two lots of 15, subject to the proviso that both countries A and B are non UK. That's clear from the statute.

Indeed it's a heavy subject, scary as the consequences of getting it wrong are big. There are so many ways to trip up it makes sense to go for one of the automatic non-residency tests if you can, but that is very hard for me to do. I just can't do so few days in the UK (only <16 to start with).

This year will be the first non-resident year if I qualify, probably a big if. For several years I have come close, going just over the 90 days each year in the UK with most of the rest of the year on the boat and I'm sure I can get well under 90 days in the UK this year and in the future, so I am going to try very hard to do so and become non-resident. It will be financially very attractive.

Although I do work every day on the boat, I will find it very hard to prove I do enough work to meet the 35 hour a week requirement of the 3rd automatic non-residency test, so I'm forced down the ties route, but before I go down the ties route I need to overcome the second automatic UK residency test as per my OP. I was struggling with that so I was pleased to learn a boat could be an overseas home.

I can see an aggressive inspector, especially if there was a lot at stake being tempted to run an argument to challenge the boat as a home. I can see all kind of arguments that could be made and there are very skilled professionals out there who can argue persuasively that black is white and they sometimes win. So I understand why you say it's better not to have to argue that point. In the current year I have enough time to get a house for the remaining half year, which would probably have to be rented and could be a home. Would it be more of a home than a boat? I'm not sure. I'd spend more hours on the boat for sure. I could buy a home also or get a long term rental, but even that could be challenged just like with a boat as you point out for being nothing more than a holiday home. A decent substantial home maybe not so easily, but I want to live on my bloody boat, so rather than mess around with bricks and mortar games. I'd really like to make the boat home a convincing home if I could and would love to know what to do about that to make it convincing and certain. I believe it's my home, so why is it open to challenge. Frustrating! I'm not Sheikh Mansoor and have not got a floating stately home as he does, but like you say I have quit a big boat, bigger than most city apartments, so it's a credible home. Also of note is that I have the ability to ensure I get little income this year, so run little risk by attempting this.

There must be others who live on their boat with similar issues to me, so proving it's a home must have been done and precedents will have been made. (Or with motorhomes - a vehicle as a home is referenced by example also in the law). I'd love it if I could learn what issues were raised and satisfied.

Next year I am in a better position to try something else and what you suggested may be the answer for me, so BIG thanks for that tip: I have multiple UK properties and it would be easy for me to spend less than 30 days in each so as to not trigger the rule of having a qualifying UK home and to then be able to bump up my days to under the 90 days I am allowed with the 2 ties I have under the ties test. What's more if I understand it correctly that means I don't need to run the argument that the boat is a home at all. Happy days - maybe. I say that with some trepidation and wonder if there will be a way to challenge me (Ramsay comes to mind).

As to keeping contemporaneous records I wonder what is adequate. Of course boarding passes and visas and passport stamps are easy to produce, but to prove that you spent nights in a home seems impossibly hard to do at least I can't think of an indisputable way to prove where you slept the night. My girlfriends are not the type to make good witnesses unfortunately.

I agree with your point about not relying on the HMRC manuals. I had a clash with them on one occassion and was amazed that my accountant was able to argue their manuals were wrong. They agreed with him in the end, but never changed them. Quite extraordinary. And indeed, as you say, the legislation has to be the best guidance. I was too lazy to look it up, but I'm glad you suggested I do so. It's hard, but not impossible reading.

So key to winning the boat as a home argument for this year is winning the argument of it not being 'nothing more than a holiday home or temporary retreat (or something similar)'. It would be useful also to put myself in a position to be sure to win it going forwards as if I were ever to lose the ability to claim I had no UK qualifying homes I would again have to rely on this argument. Now how to do that without selling/renting my UK homes, which I'd prefer not do?

 

[trapper guy]

funny thing ive noticed, in 3rd world countries, shanties and rickshaws are considered suitable dwellings if you cant afford a house.
but in so called 1st world countries, all of that is illegal.

god forbid anyone should die in a shanty, but dying in a council flat with mold and mildew is considered acceptable