The SS Varvassi claims yet another victim

[E39mad]

I seem to remember that a buoy was placed west of there in the early nineties as a mark of the course after a couple of boats hit the wreck (more later!) but the buoy headed off towards Poole in light winds and was ignored!

I was crew on a 45ft boat in 1990 when an ex-Admirals Cup two tonner to windward of us was shouting for us to bare away because of the wreck. We were still setting the kite up and told them they had no rights. Once the kite was set and we settled down for a blast down to St Kats, we looked back to see the boat with the sails down and a rib close-by.

We found out later that they had hit the wreck so hard it punch the keel into the boat and was taking on water quickly - bilge pumps didn't cope so someone shut the engine inlet valve, took the hose off the seacock and placed it into the bilge whilst they motored at full revs to Lymington where a travel hoist was waiting to lift them out!

 

[Railbob]

I see some wag has altered the Wikipedia entry for the Varvassi ��

 

[PilotWolf]

In response to your fishing boat / commercial examples, no, I would not have the same response.

I would suggest that your comment 'anything that endangers your vessel or crew' is rather lame to be frank and demonstrates that you really don't understand that risk is ever present and how we deal with the probability of that risk happening is really what defines seamanship.

So you're saying that amateurs/racers should have the same standard of seamanship as a professional or that it's OK to break the rules and take risks because they're just playing and having 'fun'?

As a commercial Skipper for many years on various commercial vessels with professional crews operating in all sort of conditions and high risk operational scenarios I am VERY aware of what constitutes PROFESSIONALISM and seamanship. If I found any of my crew had cut a corner and endangered the vessel they would be terminated immediately.

PW

 

[Deleted member 36384]

So you're saying that amateurs/racers should have the same standard of seamanship as a professional or that it's OK to break the rules and take risks because they're just playing and having 'fun'? .....

No, I said that seamanship is objective, it is you that is suggesting seamanship of larger commercial operations is the same as small yachts. It is not, a small yacht that can navigate in shallow water around obstructions (clearly in this case not) is not the same seamanship as a large commercial vessel that navigate outside safe waters. Did Frank Dye practice poor seamanship when he sailed his Wayfarer to Iceland and Norway? Another example, of small boat sailing that one could consider a poor example of seamanship. Personally, I think it shows the highest level of seamanship.

Do you think that yachtsmen who sail around the shallows of the east coast and bump into the putty from time to time are practising poor seamanship? Is the skipper of a small yacht goes north of a southerly cardinal that marks the end of a spit and sails over the top of the spit with 0.25m under the keel guilty of poor seamanship?

I won't comment on the racing yacht, because I really don't know the details, but if a racing yacht skipper chose to navigate in shallow water for an advantage and the navigation was based on following the boat in front, then I would consider that an act of poor seamanship. Sailing inside navigation marks, shallow water sailing, bumping over mud banks, extreme small boat sailing - I have more respect for their standards of seamanship than some professional masters of large or small, commercial vessels.

 

[michael_w]

The wreck used to get marked by a temporary buoy. Invariably someone would hit it hard and the buoy would head off to sea. I'm surprised that the underwiriting syndicates have not clubbed together and put a beacon attached to the boilers. Would save them a heap of money in the long run.

 

[lpdsn]

So you're saying that amateurs/racers should have the same standard of seamanship as a professional or that it's OK to break the rules and take risks because they're just playing and having 'fun'?

As a commercial Skipper for many years on various commercial vessels with professional crews operating in all sort of conditions and high risk operational scenarios I am VERY aware of what constitutes PROFESSIONALISM and seamanship. If I found any of my crew had cut a corner and endangered the vessel they would be terminated immediately.

PW

The idea that competitive sport involves taking actions that others would not is pretty universal. It's got nothing to do with amateur or professional sport. Yacht racing as a competitive sport has the attribute that it takes place in public waters, which is handled by enforcing the IRPCS between racing yachts and other vessels, otherwise it is conceptually no different from, for example, a F1 race.

If you were in charge of a F1 team would you order your drivers not the exceed the national speed limit? Would you last long in that job?

I don't think that anyone on this site would advocate a commercial vessel engaged in her normal duties trying to pass between the Varvassi wreck and the Needles lighthouse, but that is a completely different scenario.

No doubt the owner of Alchemist is not happy that she sank, and given the choice would have ensured it didn't happen, but I'd speculate he wouldn't have been very happy either if she came back in the bottom half of the fleet.

 

[RichardS]

This has been shown in Varvassi threads in previous years but it's quite surprising to see so many boats in such close proximity to the hazard.

Richard

 

[bikedaft]

This has been shown in Varvassi threads in previous years but it's quite surprising to see so many boats in such close proximity to the hazard.

Richard

brilliant pic, thanks!

 

[claymore]

If I found any of my crew had cut a corner and endangered the vessel they would be terminated immediately.

PW

Glad I never sailed with you!

Just popped in to have a look round
See you're all still talking the same old bollocks.
Bye

 

[RichardS]

Glad I never sailed with you!

Just popped in to have a look round
See you're all still talking the same old bollocks.
Bye

Last post 6th June 2016 so not exactly a long sojourn was it.

If I were you, I'd stay away just a little bit longer next time.

Richard

 

[DJE]

I was crew on a 45ft boat in 1990 when an ex-Admirals Cup two tonner to windward of us was shouting for us to bare away because of the wreck. We were still setting the kite up and told them they had no rights. Once the kite was set and we settled down for a blast down to St Kats, we looked back to see the boat with the sails down and a rib close-by.

Not so sure that they had no rights if they were overlapped at an obstruction and called for water. :ambivalence:

 

[dom]

I was crew on a 45ft boat in 1990 when an ex-Admirals Cup two tonner to windward of us was shouting for us to bare away because of the wreck. We were still setting the kite up and told them they had no rights. Once the kite was set and we settled down for a blast down to St Kats, we looked back to see the boat with the sails down and a rib close-by.

We found out later that they had hit the wreck so hard it punch the keel into the boat and was taking on water quickly - bilge pumps didn't cope so someone shut the engine inlet valve, took the hose off the seacock and placed it into the bilge whilst they motored at full revs to Lymington where a travel hoist was waiting to lift them out!

Personally, I'd give someone water and then protest instead of wrecking their boat ....always.

 

[dunedin]

Not so sure that they had no rights if they were overlapped at an obstruction and called for water. :ambivalence:

Agree - in which case the boat that hit could have protested to get the OP disqualified, and potentially sued for damage costs afterwards

 

[RichardS]

[Content removed]

LOL

It's lucky you don't want to come back as that's a definite spell on Shore Leave.

See you on the other side ......... maybe? :encouragement:

Richard

 

[claymore]

Well, that didn't work - maybe they haven't finished the morning papers?
Anyway - I don't think patronising was a kind way of describing you and I apologise for using such an awful word.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I am reminded of Billy Connelly's Bovril and Shoes sketch.

 

[RichardS]

Well, that didn't work - maybe they haven't finished the morning papers?
Anyway - I don't think patronising was a kind way of describing you and I apologise for using such an awful word.

Unless someone reports the rule infraction it's unlikely that the Mods will see it.

I've never reported anyone for anything and never will ..... so it won't be me!

Richard

 

[awol]

Frustratingly that means I am paying for this through my insurance premium...

I take comfort from the idea that all the seldom used boats festering in marinas week in, week out, are keeping my insurance premiums down. I reckon that only about 10% of boats are used regularly and thus put at risk, so thank you to the 90%.

 

[claymore]

Unless someone reports the rule infraction it's unlikely that the Mods will see it.

I've never reported anyone for anything and never will ..... so it won't be me!

Richard

Oh go on - You know you want to so...
"Man up Vanessa and grow some balls" as Sarah Lancashire said in what has to be the very best line in happy valley

 

[syc1]

Unless someone reports the rule infraction it's unlikely that the Mods will see it.

I've never reported anyone for anything and never will ..... so it won't be me!

Richard

I might just for the fun of it!