The RNLI, do you donate?

[dom]

3 posts in 2 years, me thinks you're an RNLI troll!

And I sometimes wish we had Big Billy Goat Gruff on here:


...Big bold Billy Goat Gruff was jealous and couldn’t wait to get across the bridge and join his brothers. So boldly, he put his hooves onto the bridge. Trip, trap, trip, trap. Suddenly the Troll loomed out from under the bridge.

‘Who’s that trip trapping over my bridge?’ he boomed.

‘It’s me. Big Billy Goat Gruff. Who do you think you are?’

‘I’m the Troll and I’m going to eat you for breakfast, lunch and tea!’

‘Oh no, you’re not’

‘Oh yes I am – you’ll see!’

Then the Troll rushed at Big Billy Goat Gruff who bent his head and bravely charged at the Troll, catching him up in his horns and tossing him into the stream below. The Troll disappeared under the rushing water, never to be seen again.

From then on, anyone could cross the bridge and enjoy the sweet green grass with the Three Billy Goats Gruff."

 

[Koeketiene]

Used to donate - don't anymore.

Two reasons:
1. As already alluded to be others - do think the RNLI is top-heavy. Wage packets of top management is staggering. As the RNLI seems to be awash with money, don't think there is an urgency to manage money well. Some time ago there was a therad about how RNLI lifeboats cost a lot more than French lifeboats. Interesting to note that RNLI lifeboats are built by a whole owned subsidiary of the RNLI.
2. Their, IMHO, extremely patronising 'lifejackets' campaign.

I now donate to an independent, Orwell based lifeboat.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Used to donate - don't anymore.

Two reasons:
1. As already alluded to be others - do think the RNLI is top-heavy. Wage packets of top management is staggering. As the RNLI seems to be awash with money, don't think there is an urgency to manage money well. Some time ago there was a therad about how RNLI lifeboats cost a lot more than French lifeboats. Interesting to note that RNLI lifeboats are built by a whole owned subsidiary of the RNLI.
2. Their, IMHO, extremely patronising 'lifejackets' campaign.

I now donate to an independent, Orwell based lifeboat.

Much the same here but slightly different reasons.The RNLI appears to have enough money to serve its purpose at present so doesnt need me to contribute.If that changes in future then I would resume chipping in.Charities need IMO to get away from the naked commercialisation and back to responding to defined needs with boundaries.
There are others that I would not currently give money to as well,for similar reasons.-----Guide dogs and Great Ormand Street Hospital are two.Nothing wrong with either of them but both rolling in money.

 

[Trundlebug]

Interesting how many people seem to think the RNLI are wasteful and profligate.

Yet a key figure quoted above which seems to have been ignored is that out of every £1 donated, £0.83p is spent directly on operational services, not overheads. You'd think reading some of the comments above that it was the other way round.

Well to me at least that's a more than acceptable figure. In fact it seems remarkably efficient. How many companies, other charities, councils or hospitals can boast that sort of spending efficiency? Yes I know most of their workforce are volunteers so perhaps not the fairest comparison, but what about comparison with other charities? I still think you'll struggle to beat them. Bay way of example (and ones that spring to mind) the Royal British Legion, National Trust, Canal & River Trust. No doubt someone will be along in a minute with the figures.

There seems to be an thinly veiled jealousy that when the RNLI spend money on things they buy good quality stuff, designed to last rather than a "buy cheap, buy twice" approach "because they're a charity and they should look poor".

It does make me wonder if the critics have really thought it through.
If you're using equipment that may have to operate in extremes of weather and conditions, and therefore is stressed considerably more than kit used for leisure, you would not only want the best but you'd want it fairly recent and well maintained. That doesn't come cheap, however you look at it.

Likewise if you need to construct a building, you'd want that to last as well, so you don't have to spend a fortune replacing things every five minutes. And you'd want to consolidate as much as possible and keep good control of costs and overheads. Isn't that what they're doing?

Face reality my friends, there is no such thing as a perfect organisation with 100% efficiency.
Once you have accepted that and let it sink in, and have compared relative efficiencies with other charities I think you'll conclude that maybe 83% isn't too bad at all.

 

[dom]

...there is no such thing as a perfect organisation with 100% efficiency.
Once you have accepted that and let it sink in, and have compared relative efficiencies with other charities I think you'll conclude that maybe 83% isn't too bad at all.

Very well put; mind you'll attract the Troll-in-Chief with comments like that :nonchalance:

 

[Juan Twothree]

Used to donate - don't anymore.
Interesting to note that RNLI lifeboats are built by a whole owned subsidiary of the RNLI.

And they have been since 2009. At the time the RNLI said:

‘This is not a decision we are taking lightly, Green Marine is the only manufacturer in the United Kingdom able to produce the technologically advanced composite hulls required for our lifeboats to the RNLI’s exacting standards. Loss of this capability would have had catastrophic consequences for our Tamar, Atlantic 85 and other future lifeboat construction. After carefully evaluating a comprehensive range of options including potential overseas suppliers, we concluded that taking over the Green Marine capability would best serve the Institution’s current and future interests.

 

[dogleg]

And they have been since 2009. At the time the RNLI said:

‘This is not a decision we are taking lightly, Green Marine is the only manufacturer in the United Kingdom able to produce the technologically advanced composite hulls required for our lifeboats to the RNLI’s exacting standards. Loss of this capability would have had catastrophic consequences for our Tamar, Atlantic 85 and other future lifeboat construction. After carefully evaluating a comprehensive range of options including potential overseas suppliers, we concluded that taking over the Green Marine capability would best serve the Institution’s current and future interests.

Only the bare hull was made by Green Marine Lymington, which became SAR Composites, Tamars were fitted out at Babcock Marine Plymouth, the bare hulls being transported by road while the first dozen or so Shannon hulls were fitted out at Berthron, Lymington. 100% build of Shannons at LMC Poole will gradually occur once the hull build is transferred there sometime in the future.

 

[dogleg]

Sorry, I think you'll find he's added a red Ferrari to his garage this month!

S.

2 actually

 

[Sybarite]

Interesting how many people seem to think the RNLI are wasteful and profligate.

Yet a key figure quoted above which seems to have been ignored is that out of every £1 donated, £0.83p is spent directly on operational services, not overheads. You'd think reading some of the comments above that it was the other way round.

Face reality my friends, there is no such thing as a perfect organisation with 100% efficiency.
Once you have accepted that and let it sink in, and have compared relative efficiencies with other charities I think you'll conclude that maybe 83% isn't too bad at all.

Source for the 83% please. As an aside the RNLI salaries budget is three times higher than the total SNSM budget including their fleet replacement.

 

[Sybarite]

Source for the 83% please. As an aside the RNLI salaries budget is three times higher than the total SNSM budget including their fleet replacement.

OK I see the number now and unfortunately it's yet again the case of somebody not knowing how to read accounts.

Trundlebug has taken total operating income (excluding investment gains of £18m) of £190.1m and compared that with total operating expenditure of £157.7m - which includes overheads contrary to what he would like us to believe.

 

[Sybarite]

And they have been since 2009. At the time the RNLI said:

‘This is not a decision we are taking lightly, Green Marine is the only manufacturer in the United Kingdom able to produce the technologically advanced composite hulls required for our lifeboats to the RNLI’s exacting standards. Loss of this capability would have had catastrophic consequences for our Tamar, Atlantic 85 and other future lifeboat construction. After carefully evaluatinprehensive range of options including potential overseas suppliers, we concluded that taking over the Green Marine capability would best serve the Institution’s current and future interests.

"And if we can get people to swallow that we are halfway there....."

 

[Trundlebug]

Source for the 83% please. As an aside the RNLI salaries budget is three times higher than the total SNSM budget including their fleet replacement.

#109 above, which refers to RNLI home page.
I couldn't see it there so had a quick look in the 2013 annual report but don't have time to delve right now

 

[Trundlebug]

OK I see the number now and unfortunately it's yet again the case of somebody not knowing how to read accounts.

Trundlebug has taken total operating income (excluding investment gains of £18m) of £190.1m and compared that with total operating expenditure of £157.7m - which includes overheads contrary to what he would like us to believe.

OK fine so what is the true figure, and how does it compare to other charities?

 

[haydude]

It is a big, expensive business and needs quality management and leadership.

Rubbish!

You can have plenty of quality management and leadership without having to pay a fortune. It is a charity for god sake!

Are you saying that you do not know anyone (or maybe yourself) who has enough experience and leadership, who might be semi-retired or retired and looking for a fun occupation, who could not do the job just as well or even better? I bet if anyone would ever offer his/her services he would be turned down on some superficial ground because the elite knows they would loose control of their profits.

Thanks to the RNLI I perceive charities as profitable organizations where profits however are distributed internally (to a very small elite) rather than to share holders. And yes the RNLI is not an isolated case.

I do not trust self-managed charities, I would prefer a nationalized service with the appropriate level of scrutiny. However for as long as there are gullible donors, they are welcome as it saves me paying extra tax.

 

[Trundlebug]

Rubbish!

You can have plenty of quality management and leadership without having to pay a fortune. It is a charity for god sake!

Are you saying that you do not know anyone (or maybe yourself) who has enough experience and leadership, who might be semi-retired or retired and looking for a fun occupation, who could not do the job just as well or even better?

I do not trust self-managed charities, I would prefer a nationalized service with the appropriate level of scrutiny. However for as long as there are gullible donors, they are welcome as it saves me paying extra tax.

All those highly talented and experienced people are likely to be in high demand elsewhere for their talents, meaning no-one would have the time. An organisation such as the RNLI needs a dedicated full time person, in a demanding role. People retire for a reason!

Oh yes, we really need it to be nationalised.
Take for example the ambulance service. We never hear of them being starved of money, always turning up on time within their allotted targets, and meeting all their objectives eh? Oh yes, that's just what we need.
After all, nationalised services are always so well funded with all the latest kit and plenty of it, yep, what a fine idea.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

RNLI top management only needs to be there for a two year contract at most every 10-20yrs surely ?

Once the plan is up and running well, then get rid of all those who are no longer necessary.

The engineering force and required admin could surely manage for a period as is and a review done as to the needs of a CEO etc.

 

[Sybarite]

All those highly talented and experienced people are likely to be in high demand elsewhere for their talents, meaning no-one would have the time. An organisation such as the RNLI needs a dedicated full time person, in a demanding role. People retire for a reason!

Here's the profile of the president of the SNSM. He does it on a voluntary basis.

http://www.cineaqua.com/index.php/f...bil/conferences/biographie-xavier-de-la-gorce

The Head of the RNLI took a £10k pay increase in 2014 - to £143k. To be fair there was a reduced pension contribution for him from c. £30k pa to c. £5k.

 

[Bru]

Here's the profile of the president of the SNSM. He does it on a voluntary basis.

http://www.cineaqua.com/index.php/f...bil/conferences/biographie-xavier-de-la-gorce

The Head of the RNLI took a £10k pay increase in 2014 - to £143k. To be fair there was a reduced pension contribution for him from c. £30k pa to c. £5k.

That's a bit disingenuous at best, deliberately misleading at worst

The equivalent of the President of the SNSM at the RNLI is the Chairman of the Board of Trustees who is just as much an unpaid volunteer as his French counterpart

As I'm not a French speaker I'm struggling with the obscurity of the SNSM website via Google Translate so perhaps you'd enlighten us on the pay and conditions applicable to the senior paid member of staff at the SNSM (be he the General Manager or the Director General or whatever, the translated website is as I say unclear)

 

[Sybarite]

That's a bit disingenuous at best, deliberately misleading at worst

The equivalent of the President of the SNSM at the RNLI is the Chairman of the Board of Trustees who is just as much an unpaid volunteer as his French counterpart

As I'm not a French speaker I'm struggling with the obscurity of the SNSM website via Google Translate so perhaps you'd enlighten us on the pay and conditions applicable to the senior paid member of staff at the SNSM (be he the General Manager or the Director General or whatever, the translated website is as I say unclear)

If you remember we already had this conversation.

However- the SNSM only publishes (as it is legally required to) the aggregate remuneration of the 3 highest paid members:
€277k.

http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/publications/assoccpt/pdf/2014/3112/775665029_31122014.pdf. (audited accounts)

Note 3. Page 11.

 

[Bru]

If you remember we already had this conversation.

However- the SNSM only publishes (as it is legally required to) the aggregate remuneration of the 3 highest paid members:
€277k.

http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/publications/assoccpt/pdf/2014/3112/775665029_31122014.pdf. (audited accounts)

Note 3. Page 11.

Apologies, I had forgotten the conversation

So the three highest paid staff presumably includes the actual equivalent of the RNLI Chief Exec? And he must be on somewhat more than a third of that amount so at a guess he's probably earning the equivalent of around £75,000 to £80,000 p.a.

Granted that's considerably less than his counterpart in the UK but it's a significantly smaller organisation with significantly less income - which could be argued to be a good thing of course but that's actually beside the point, the boss of a big operation is generally paid more than the boss of a smaller operation in the normal course of things

(We'd all like to see the RNLI cut it's salary bill, I'm sure, but the reality is that in order to attract experienced competent staff at all levels in an organisation, whether a charity or not, you have to offer a halfway competitive salary package and without a shadow of doubt somebody with the background of the current RNLI CEO could earn substantially more in commerce)