The RNLI at it again.

[ProMariner]

Had they had suitable safety equipment, they could probably have convinced the LB/CG to leave them alone. The safety equipment, however, only helps to avoid turning an accident into a catastrophe, it is the skills/experience of the crew and the suitability of the vessel, that prevents the accident in the first place.

They got out and back under their own power, they probably counted the success of their own trip in terms of fish caught.

To be able to judge whether the plan was irresponsible, we would need to know, did they have an anchor, and a set of oars? Had they practiced MOB recovery? Did they have suitable clothing to protect them from exposure from a short swim? Did they have a chart and a compass, and know how to use them? Was one of the crew trained to take over, if the skipper was incapacitated? (insert another 50 questions)

Although it is impossible to answer, any skipper who can't be bothered to bring enough lifejackets for all his crew, is probably someone most of us would be happy enough to not go to sea with.

 

[epervier]

My question to this item would be, who made a non event news worthy?

Or is there another agenda at work, did the CG or RNLI leak the story to Aunty, there by heightening their public profile, when CG budgets are being cut, RNLI givers cutting back in times of austerity. just thinking aloud.

 

[Koeketiene]

My question to this item would be, who made a non event news worthy?

Or is there another agenda at work, did the CG or RNLI leak the story to Aunty, there by heightening their public profile, when CG budgets are being cut, RNLI givers cutting back in times of austerity. just thinking aloud.

Been having similar thoughts.

 

[maxi77]

So if I fall off my boat and drown somebody else has to share the responsibility?

Peter.

If they knew it was likely and did nothing possibly so, or at least that is the way your relatives may see it with the help of a no win no fee lawyer, then even getting yourself of the hook may well be expensive especially if your lawyer needs stage payments

 

[NorthUp]

My question to this item would be, who made a non event news worthy?

Or is there another agenda at work, did the CG or RNLI leak the story to Aunty, there by heightening their public profile, when CG budgets are being cut, RNLI givers cutting back in times of austerity. just thinking aloud.

http://www.westonrnli.org.uk/page28.htm

Does this read like the same story? Maybe your sights are on the wrong target?

 

[NormanS]

I would take issue with the statement that a mobile phone "is no use...".

Some years ago, on a dark and dirty night, I heard a Mayday on VHF. It got no response, so I called the casualty, found out what the problem was, and broadcast a Mayday Relay. (I was unable to provide any physical assistance).

My Mayday Relay went unanswered, but eventually I was (just) able to make contact with the CG by mobile phone. They called out the nearest Lifeboat, and after some unfortunate delays, when the Lifeboat ran aground, and had to wait to refloat, the casualty was rescued. By this time his boat had struck the rocks and sunk, but he managed to clamber onto the rock. Much longer, and he would have died from hypothermia.

His life was undoubtedly saved by a mobile phone.

 

[Adonnante]

If they knew it was likely and did nothing possibly so, or at least that is the way your relatives may see it with the help of a no win no fee lawyer, then even getting yourself of the hook may well be expensive especially if your lawyer needs stage payments

As far as I can tell, it would appear that I would be the first that needed a lawyer.

I have also had a similar experience to Norman S. I was unable to make a Mayday relay VHF call in Gerrans Bay but succeeded in contacting Falmouth CG via mobile phone.

Peter.

 

[epervier]

http://www.westonrnli.org.uk/page28.htm

Does this read like the same story? Maybe your sights are on the wrong target?

Haven't set my sights on any particular target, this type of situation must happen hundreds, if not thousands of times a year round our coasts without having to make it to the sensational News making hacks.

Example,

This is an old fart in a 2.6 mtr rib with a 4HP motor about to cross a busy shipping lane,his top speed about 6kts or less,distance to cover about 2nm, No gps, No charts,No compass,No radar,No plotter,No flare pack, he has a LJ and wearing it and HH floater Icom VHF, is he ill equipped? is he in need of CG or RNLI interference? should it make BBC News Coverage?

 

[Koeketiene]

http://www.westonrnli.org.uk/page28.htm

Does this read like the same story? Maybe your sights are on the wrong target?

It does sound/read like the same story.

Strange though that in your link they refer to the rubber dinghy as 'casualty vessel', even though the RNLI provided no assistance and just escorted it.

Probably looks better in the statistics.

 

[HoratioHB]

A phone isn't a substitute for a VHF radio. What are you going to do in an emergency? Phone the fire brigade?

Quite worrying that someone on this forum doesn't know that you can ring the CG on a 999 call.
My point is that the article said mobile phones are no good for contacting the emergency services which is rubbish. Yes they have limitations but a hand held VHF has limited range. If you have a mobile signal then you have unlimited range! I'm not advocating their use instead of other systems merely that this is just another part of the article which is total rubbish.

 

[mainsail1]

epervier
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthUp
http://www.westonrnli.org.uk/page28.htm

Does this read like the same story? Maybe your sights are on the wrong target?
Haven't set my sights on any particular target, this type of situation must happen hundreds, if not thousands of times a year round our coasts without having to make it to the sensational News making hacks.

Example,

This is an old fart in a 2.6 mtr rib with a 4HP motor about to cross a busy shipping lane,his top speed about 6kts or less,distance to cover about 2nm, No gps, No charts,No compass,No radar,No plotter,No flare pack, he has a LJ and wearing it and HH floater Icom VHF, is he ill equipped? is he in need of CG or RNLI interference? should it make BBC News Coverage?


Today 17:53


That old fart should be sent to a care home and restrained from ever doing such a fun thing again.

 

[NorthUp]

The old fart is better equiped than me going to my mooring- I only bother with a LJ in poor weather.

It seems to me the Beeb have taken liberties with the story.

 

[Searush]

Quite worrying that someone on this forum doesn't know that you can ring the CG on a 999 call.
My point is that the article said mobile phones are no good for contacting the emergency services which is rubbish. Yes they have limitations but a hand held VHF has limited range. If you have a mobile signal then you have unlimited range! I'm not advocating their use instead of other systems merely that this is just another part of the article which is total rubbish.

That is untrue. Mobile phones use time division digital signals & there is a physical constraint on their range. Provide you are within range of an aerial, then yes, your signal may be carried around the world, but your range over open sea from a Cell mast is not much different from a VHF.

However the aerials will be in different locations so the dead spots are in different places. In addition, if calling 999 then ANY network aerial will accept your signal so you are not simply dependant on your own network's infrastructure.

Mobile phones are a useful addition to VHF, but should not be assumed to be a suitable replacement. As pointed out in the article, your VHF may be used for direct contact between rescuer & casualty*. Also with DF equipment your VHF transmission could be used to locate your position approximately. However VHF DF equipment is no longer being fitted to lifeboats & the eqt in CG stations is beyond its designed life & will not be replaced.

*Strictly speaking, no doubt the CG could pass your mobile no to the lifeboat crew who could ring you direct anyway - as long as your battery lasts anyway.

 

[HoratioHB]

That is untrue. Mobile phones use time division digital signals & there is a physical constraint on their range. Provide you are within range of an aerial, then yes, your signal may be carried around the world, but your range over open sea from a Cell mast is not much different from a VHF.

However the aerials will be in different locations so the dead spots are in different places. In addition, if calling 999 then ANY network aerial will accept your signal so you are not simply dependant on your own network's infrastructure.

Mobile phones are a useful addition to VHF, but should not be assumed to be a suitable replacement. As pointed out in the article, your VHF may be used for direct contact between rescuer & casualty*. Also with DF equipment your VHF transmission could be used to locate your position approximately. However VHF DF equipment is no longer being fitted to lifeboats & the eqt in CG stations is beyond its designed life & will not be replaced.

*Strictly speaking, no doubt the CG could pass your mobile no to the lifeboat crew who could ring you direct anyway - as long as your battery lasts anyway.

Yes yes yes I agree with all that. My point is that the article said that phone were no good for contacting the emergency services. Which is untrue. That's all nothing more.

 

[epervier]

epervier
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthUp
http://www.westonrnli.org.uk/page28.htm

Does this read like the same story? Maybe your sights are on the wrong target?
Haven't set my sights on any particular target, this type of situation must happen hundreds, if not thousands of times a year round our coasts without having to make it to the sensational News making hacks.

Example,

This is an old fart in a 2.6 mtr rib with a 4HP motor about to cross a busy shipping lane,his top speed about 6kts or less,distance to cover about 2nm, No gps, No charts,No compass,No radar,No plotter,No flare pack, he has a LJ and wearing it and HH floater Icom VHF, is he ill equipped? is he in need of CG or RNLI interference? should it make BBC News Coverage?


Today 17:53


That old fart should be sent to a care home and restrained from ever doing such a fun thing again.

His wife,who btw took the photo, does check that she has his life policies in her hand bag before he sets off

 

[Sans Bateau]

I would suggest that at this time of the year and with little 'news' happening that great British institution, the BBC has 'found' this and turned a complete non event into a drama, something we all know they have a habit of doing. If they printed a news paper it would be called 'The Daily Mail'.

The RNLI were only doing what we always want them to do, that is to keep an eye on those who think they know everything.

 

[Uricanejack]

Surely the RNLI is between a rock and a hard place . If they went home and the dinghy foundered and loss of life resulted the relatives would be down the "no win no fee" route in seconds. Only those at the scene and in the control centre know what went on at the time. As to poorly equiped anglers, how many times each year do you hear "Is there a vessel in the xxxxx area who can tow a 16 foot fishing boat that has broken down-run out of fuel-taking on water or leaking-back to yyyyyyy? Some anglers do push their luck...........

Not quite.

The RNLI is under the same obligation as any vessel hearing a distress call.
The RNLI or any Vesel is obliged to respond as long as the vessel or crew is not put in peril as a result of the response.
This requirment is for the safty of life. ie no vessel is obliged to assist in salvaging a vessel in distress.

A vessel is relieved of this duty when stood down.

A Vessel can be stood down by.
A rescue cordination center. ie coast gaurd.
The on sceen comander. Master of Vessel leading response on sceen.
The Master or Skipper of the Vessel in distress.

In this case by refusing assistance the RNLI vessel had been stood down by the vessel in apparent distress.

The desisision to remain in the area and stand by was over and above the duty required. The only problem is the resource is tied up in event of another distress.
Part of the rights and freedoms of being British includes the right of the sport fishermen to determin thier own risks and to be "stupid".

I don't see any reason to critisise the RNLI for thier actions in this situation.
The RNLI responed to a call from a concerened obserever.
Arived on scene and were told we don't need asistance. there for stood down.
Left the fisherment to fish as they chose.
The RNLI were concerened about the fishermens safty so stood by incase a distress situation resulted.

 

[lenseman]

. . . . . 'A mobile telephone is no use when calling for help or in communicating with the rescue services.'

If you have a signal which they almost certainly would have then dialling 999 would do just that!! I always have mine as in UK waters it gets me the weather, has full navionics charts with GPS on it, and can ring for help if all else fails. . . . . . . .

Wearing my Devil Advocate set of horns, if you were to jump over the side of your boat with a life jacket on, I presume your mobile would operate normally?

Have you tried it and if so how did you get on?

.

 

[caiman]

I once recieved and replied to a txt messege while in the water doing a MOB recovery exercise with a local boat.The phone is a Samsung B1200(?).It cost £80 new on E Bay.I have used it to chat to the Coasties on more than one occasion afloat.
Whether a Lifeboat remains 'on scene' or goes home,the ultimate decision is made by the Coxswain/Helm,nobody else.
Cheers

 

[Daydream believer]

How does the lifeboat look if they leave the scene & something does happen
I am sure the press would slate the RNLI & give bad publicity which they could ill afford
I also suspect one of those "ambulance chasing" lawyers would find a way to sue the RNLI for negligence on the grounds that they are experienced & should have forced the errant boaters to accept help
My sympathies with the RNLI on this one