The return of the cruiser racer....?

[flaming]

A while ago I started this thread, which generated a lot of debate.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...low-death-of-the-cruiser-racer&highlight=1010

Since then there have been a couple of interesting new launches that you might class as cruiser racers... Both coincidentally marketed in the UK by the same agent.

http://www.keyyachting.com/grand-soleil/grand-soleil-34/
http://www.keyyachting.com/j-boats/j112e-new-for-2015/

So is this the return of the cruiser racer?

 

[Sandgrounder]

Did it ever go away? Bendytoy have been pushing a range of cruiser racers for years surely?

Both the boats you identified look good but not really what I want

 

[flaming]

Did it ever go away? Bendytoy have been pushing a range of cruiser racers for years surely?

Both the boats you identified look good but not really what I want

That was the point of the previous thread. Beneteau have dropped the first range, and most other manufacturers had done likewise.

What is it about these boats that you don't like?

 

[dunedin]

At lot of money on a boat to get bashed round the race course.

And doesn’t solve the issue that to cruise needs a lot of heavy stuff that would need to be shifted off before going racing and on before cruising.
Racing and occasional overnight trips to a harbour with a pub, fine - serious racing and proper cruising I fear doesn’t work

 

[flaming]

At lot of money on a boat to get bashed round the race course.

And doesn’t solve the issue that to cruise needs a lot of heavy stuff that would need to be shifted off before going racing and on before cruising.
Racing and occasional overnight trips to a harbour with a pub, fine - serious racing and proper cruising I fear doesn’t work

If you read the previous thread you'll see that I basically agree with you!
However it seems that at least 2 manufacturers are actually making models that could be classified as CRs in the mid 30 foot bracket now. Which wasn't the case at the time of the last thread.

 

[TallBuoy]

What is it about these boats that you don't like?

The average cruiser would say the interior is stark (including open plan fore peak), and very little comfort in the cockpit.

First impression is that its a racing yacht which people could sleep on overnight, not a cruising yacht. If Key want to sell it as a cruiser, it needs to be dressed as one - white sails, scatter cushions, spray hood etc.

 

[doug748]

Some sort of boarding step at the stern would be handy.
There was a racer which had a long demountable box at the stern which could be detached complete with cruising accoutrements? Also filled in the disconcerting gap, offshore.

 

[TallBuoy]

Some sort of boarding step at the stern would be handy.
There was a racer which had a long demountable box at the stern which could be detached complete with cruising accoutrements? Also filled in the disconcerting gap, offshore.

yep, J105 is one example.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

I remember looking around the J boat at last year's Southampton boat show, details were starting to emerge when I was last changing boats. On balance I'm happy with my choice.

 

[mrming]

That was the point of the previous thread. Beneteau have dropped the first range, and most other manufacturers had done likewise.

What is it about these boats that you don't like?

Didn’t realise the Firsts were gone. Looking at the site they just list the 20 & 25 now. Wonder why? The 40 was pretty competitive and the 35 wasn’t bad either. Maybe didn’t sell as many as the .7s? I wonder if smaller numbers of cheaper to fit out Sun Fasts are seen as a better strategy?

 

[lpdsn]

Didn’t realise the Firsts were gone. Looking at the site they just list the 20 & 25 now. Wonder why? The 40 was pretty competitive and the 35 wasn’t bad either. Maybe didn’t sell as many as the .7s? I wonder if smaller numbers of cheaper to fit out Sun Fasts are seen as a better strategy?

I never thought the latest round of Firsts were that competitive. Alway though of them as fast cruisers that had given up on the idea of serious racing. Still, as always, it depends upon how well individual boats are sailed.

 

[mrming]

I never thought the latest round of Firsts were that competitive. Alway though of them as fast cruisers that had given up on the idea of serious racing. Still, as always, it depends upon how well individual boats are sailed.

First 40 1, 2 & 3 in IRC 2, Cowes Week 2017

http://www.lendycowesweek.co.uk/web...cing&page=points2017&resultrequest=20&submit=

 

[flaming]

yep, J105 is one example.

Small point, but it was the 109 that had the detachable dock box, the 105 does not have an open stern.

 

[flaming]

I never thought the latest round of Firsts were that competitive. Alway though of them as fast cruisers that had given up on the idea of serious racing. Still, as always, it depends upon how well individual boats are sailed.

They were very competitive. The 40 especially. Amongst other things that boat won the Sydney Hobart overall and has won pot after pot in the UK.

The 35 in the right hands can be a weapon.

 

[mrming]

They were very competitive. The 40 especially. Amongst other things that boat won the Sydney Hobart overall and has won pot after pot in the UK.

The 35 in the right hands can be a weapon.

Yep I've raced in a few events where the 35 has dominated the class above us. It's no coincidence that these are Farr designs. You've only got to look at Farr's race results section - an archive of successful racers across multiple rules and classes going back to 1964:

http://www.farrdesign.com/results-2017.html

 

[flaming]

Yes, it was kind of my point in the original thread that these boats didn't seem to be uncompetitive on the race course, but clearly aren't sufficiently profitable for Beneteau etc to make them any more.

So it was very interesting to me to see GS and J return to a market that others have abandoned. Although the GS does look more like it's targeting the Sunfast / JPK short handed end of the market more than the fully crewed race market.

Given who's marketing them I expect we'll see the GS on the race course next year in capable hands to be able to judge if it's any good! The 112E that is already racing has been winning a lot of pots this year already....

 

[bedouin]

I have been a fan of the GS boats for years - they have seemed to be a good attempt at the cruiser-racer. They have tended to outperform bendytoys under IRC and are good cruising boats too.

It seems that they are moving the models more towards the "racing" end of the spectrum - that new 34 looks nice but not really ideal for cruising!

 

[mrming]

Yes, it was kind of my point in the original thread that these boats didn't seem to be uncompetitive on the race course, but clearly aren't sufficiently profitable for Beneteau etc to make them any more.

So it was very interesting to me to see GS and J return to a market that others have abandoned. Although the GS does look more like it's targeting the Sunfast / JPK short handed end of the market more than the fully crewed race market.

Given who's marketing them I expect we'll see the GS on the race course next year in capable hands to be able to judge if it's any good! The 112E that is already racing has been winning a lot of pots this year already....

Interesting lines at the back of the GS34. Looks like the transom has been designed to reduced wetted area going upwind but allow the boat to 'sit down' on it when surfing. Seems a sensible strategy for a heavy IRC boat that isn't going to be doing a lot of planing. It does seem a little more spartan inside than both the 112e and the Firsts – not as wipe clean as the SunFasts, but open plan to the fore cabin in a 34 footer is not really what I would want in a cruiser racer. The 112e looks like a really good compromise to me.

Was there an official announcement from Benny about dropping the larger Firsts do you know? I had a Google around but couldn't find anything. The designs are 10 years old so I'm wondering if some new ones might appear next year.

 

[flaming]

Interesting lines at the back of the GS34. Looks like the transom has been designed to reduced wetted area going upwind but allow the boat to 'sit down' on it when surfing. Seems a sensible strategy for a heavy IRC boat that isn't going to be doing a lot of planing. It does seem a little more spartan inside than both the 112e and the Firsts – not as wipe clean as the SunFasts, but open plan to the fore cabin in a 34 footer is not really what I would want in a cruiser racer. The 112e looks like a really good compromise to me.

I agree that the open plan cabin is not what cruising customers in the 34 foot region would expect. Which does sort of make me think that once again what we really have is a boat that is only really intended for the race course, but is at least a ton heavier than it really needs to be in order to tick the "cruiser racer" box.

Was there an official announcement from Benny about dropping the larger Firsts do you know? I had a Google around but couldn't find anything. The designs are 10 years old so I'm wondering if some new ones might appear next year.

Nope, just got quietly dropped. And not recently either.

 

[lpdsn]

They were very competitive. The 40 especially. Amongst other things that boat won the Sydney Hobart overall and has won pot after pot in the UK.

The 35 in the right hands can be a weapon.

I must just have encountered poorly sailed examples. Sometimes difficult to tell if it is the boat or crew.