The recent flooding.A point of view.

oldgit said:
Heard on R4 this morning somebody ranting and raving regards the flooding on the Zummerzet levels.
It all the EAs fault cos they have not been dredging the local river.
No mention of where the money is going to come from or the fact it has been raining a tad recently.
Was actually going to ring the chap up and suggest he ask the Thames EA "penpushers" if they could cut down on the model boats and pens and send some dosh down to Somerset. :)
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They were also a bit p,i,ssed off, when the only decent pumps to arrive, were about 5 mins before a visit from Environment minister.
 
Surely it has to be clear the EA needs breaking up. If they want to create wetlands for birds, fine. But deciding to do that & not doing the necessary to protect people's houses & businesses, or making the decision one over the other, no. As a bye product we might an Authority responsible for ensuring navigation as their number one priority.

A debate now starting also in the Lounge;

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?385671-At-last-some-one-is-saying-it
 
ianc1200 said:
As a bye product we might an Authority responsible for ensuring navigation as their number one priority.
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I'm afraid "pigs, wings and fly" springs to mind with regard to any such defined separation within the EA itself. The Government have made it clear that their intention is to eventually transfer the EA navigations to the Canal and River Trust and my guess is that only some viable alternative that does not require direct governmental departmental control will counter that. The only argument, apart from an emotional one, that has been put forward for keeping the Navigations within the EA is a belief that the navigation function cannot be logistically separated from the flood management role but I m sure that focussed minds could resolve that one!

I am equally certain that the Flood and Environment issues will remain within central government.

I don't think there can be any doubt as to which - Flood issues or Navigation - is going to be at the top of the priority list :(
 
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Costs and funding for the Thames navigation and flood defences are currently kept separate but why? when so many of their functions are entwined (can't think of the right word) eg lock keepers,dredging,tree removals, water extraction etc. How can we push to have these two functions combined as for sure there is and will be increasing cuts in navigation funding whilst flood defences funding will increase and is by far a bigger pot.
 
Aquafan said:
Costs and funding for the Thames navigation and flood defences are currently kept separate but why? when so many of their functions are entwined (can't think of the right word) eg lock keepers,dredging,tree removals, water extraction etc. How can we push to have these two functions combined as for sure there is and will be increasing cuts in navigation funding whilst flood defences funding will increase and is by far a bigger pot.
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All under the microscope at the moment as the organisation is being restructured from National/Regional/Local to just National/Local. There is actually quite a lot of mutual assistance between FCRM and Navigation as far as the non tidal Thames is concerned but that may change as money is being further reduced from further up. There is also a huge difference between government agreed expenditure for FCRM which is a national issue with defined budgets and the local issues around weir keeping etc which are managed between revenue income and some allocation of grant aid.
 
The Environment Agency SE have just tweeted this map showing the weighted average rainfall across England 23 Dec to 5 Jan compared to the 1961 to 1990 long term average.

1619348_10151985729433026_1456969627_n.png
 
In other words, their spin doctors are going into action!

I should imagine the EA are seriously being hurt by all the flak being thrown at them, I would have thought some sort of independent inquiry/report is needed.

Very impressive whole page devoted to this in the Telegraph today.
 
Aquafan said:
How can we be involved in this hopefully we are more than just spectators?
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Users of the non tidal Thames discuss issues with the EA Thames management through the Thames Navigation User Forum (TNUF) which meets several times a year. Boaters in particular are represented on the Forum by representatives of the main boating organisations including the ATYC (boat clubs), TMBA (Association of EA Thames powered license holders - I am the TMBA representative, see my signature for link), NABO, RBOA, DBA, IWA and RYA as well as the River User Groups. Other organisations represented include the British Marine Federation and Passenger Boat Operators, The River Thames Society, British Rowing and Canoe England.
Whilst we have consultation opportunity and involvement we have no statutory powers and in the present austerity climate it has become abundantly clear that government determination to reduce public expenditure is the overwhelming priority with the EA Thames management having to manage as best they can with the resources they are given.
 
I didn't hear it, but R4 PM said matter was raised in PMQ's and Dave said dredging will start as soon as safe to do so.

Interesting half page in Telegraph about why the EA started then stopped dredging at the "pinch point" of the Parrett but stopped when water voles were found living in the banks.
 
Righto. OGs second favourite winge. after outdrives.

The decline in government political interest in all things rivery began years ago with the deliberate enforced decline of trade goods moving on the water.
Most towns and cities turned their backs on rivers and canals as being little more than a blimming place to dump rubbish etc.
The decline in the river Medway was a prime example.
Upstream after the water companies were sold off virtually nothing was done regards locks/ moorings etc and all the plant was sold off.
No money to be made for shareholders see !
The lower bit between Allington and Rochester was allowed to decay with exsisting river bank works allowed to collapse and fall into river bed. River left full of carp,so boaters reluctant to use it.
The town centre has not seen a dredger for 40 years and ALL the piers bar one were just left to rot until they became dangerous and then removed.

The tide has turned :)but until the general public ie. us are prepared to take funding from somewhere else and spend it on our rivers,not much is going to change.
Proctection of worms and Birds is fine with me and more power to EA in this dept.
If you want something done, get onto your MP, tell him to stop toadying to the swivel eyed losers threating him with looney Farage ,get his bum off his green leather bench and spend some money on our finest national resource. :)
 
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By far the most significant change in the last 24 hours is Cameron's intervention and the decision to deploy specialist army support and assistance to deal with the actual human problem that currently exists. If true, it beggars belief that the County Council have not previously asked for such assistance. It even more beggars belief that government needed to wait to be asked and nobody recognised the real nature of the immediate problem.

Most amusing thing I heard on Radio 4 this morning was report of a cartoon showing an EA person saying "We've received a months abuse in less than 24 hours" !

On a personal note I do not accept the accelerating, and dare I say highly emotional, view at a time of stress that dredging is the solution. It may help alleviate flooding to a limited degree but I do not believe it is the simple solution to the real problem which is an overwhelming level of rainfall in a short period of time. If government are not careful they are going to throw a shedload of money at something that will not guarantee the flooding will not happen again.
 
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boatone said:
I do not believe it is the simple solution to the real problem which is an overwhelming level of rainfall in a short period of time.It may help alleviate flooding to a limited degree .
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"limited degree" - I expect those affected would be grateful for anything right now, even if it only affects 30% of the flooded area, that's still a lot more dry ground than at present.
More locally the Runneymede road wouldn't have been flooded and closed for three weeks, and 15 years ago maidenhead wouldn't have been flooded.
What would you suggest instead - lots of walls?
 
apollo said:
"limited degree" - I expect those affected would be grateful for anything right now, even if it only affects 30% of the flooded area, that's still a lot more dry ground than at present.
More locally the Runneymede road wouldn't have been flooded and closed for three weeks, and 15 years ago maidenhead wouldn't have been flooded.
What would you suggest instead - lots of walls?
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Noah got on with building a boat .......
 
It is interesting that when Owen Paterson was interviewed in Somerset on Monday, he started by saying he did not need to be there as the area did not meet the national criteria for additional financial funding.

The Lower Thames, Datchet to Teddington does meet the guidelines for public expenditure and the EA solution for downriver flooding, the flood bypass channels and associated Thames works have satisfied all the cost/benefit requirements and have been signed off by both the EA and Defra. The Government then effectively stopped the work following their spending review.

The embarrassment experienced by Paterson and Cameron this week will be nothing compared to the interviews that will take place with the backdrop of 15,000 flooded homes and businesses and the £1.5 billion bill.
 
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