the practicalities of trailer sailing

[wotayottie]

I didnt want to hijack the thread on trailer sailing further down the page so I thought that I would start a new one on the issue that concerns me - the real life practicality of trailing and launching and recovering a trailer sailer.

But first some background. I'm in my mid 60s, and am beginning to think of selling my 35 ft cruiser and buying a trailer sailer. I'm no longer interested in long distance sailing and find the annual delivery and return trips from my base in the Bristol channel to my mooring on the south coast a chore. Mrs Wototottie has always been more interested in the ports we visit than the actual sailing anyway.

The idea is a boat which can be delivered by road in the spring and taken back by road in the autumn. Since our south coast mooring is away from any property we have, we will need to live aboard for maybe a week at a time. Which in turn has implications for the boat size and for trailability.

And if the boat is at the upper end of the trailable limit then that has implications for the sort of car we would need to buy. And for the launch system though there I would be happy to deliver the boast to a marina and get them to launch it and rig it. Incidentally I would lean more towards a fold up Dragonfly than a Drascombe.

But how practical is all this for a 60 year old - in other words, is it going to be easier for me to handle that my current boat or would it all be more difficult.

So comments please on :
1/ what is the practical upper limit of trailability with the sort of family car you might reasonably use for the rest of the year?
2/ At that size, how easy is launch and recovery? Is it really a yard job?
3/ At that size, how seaworthy is a trailer sailer. There have been few enough sails on a 35 footer this year due to weather. I get no braver as I age so I dont want to buy a boat that would frighten me in a F3.
4/ At that size is it really possible to live aboard in some comfort or are we talking camping in the cold unable to stand up?

 

[Zagato]

The idea is a boat which can be delivered by road in the spring and taken back by road in the autumn. Since our south coast mooring is away from any property we have, we will need to live aboard for maybe a week at a time. Which in turn has implications for the boat size and for trailability.

Ah but getting clearer, you want a trailer sailer so that you can use it on a mooring and store it at home during the winter.

I know a few that do this but I have to say If you can afford winter storage it would be better not to limit yourself to a trailer sailer. I know a few that have Drascombe Drifters on moorings, OK nice boat, seaworthy etc but if you are not going to trailer it during the season whats the point in getting a boat that costs a premium as it's trailerable if you are just going to keep it on a mooring, for the same money you could get something far more comfortable. A couple trailered one to Falmouth and came back to Emsworth where it is moored - great, that's the idea but if you are mooring permanently during the season it would be better if you are living on something for a week at a time to get something bigger! No point in making yourself and wife uncomfortable for the duration.

Majority of larger trailer sailers you can "live in" are roughly up to 2. - 2.5 tonnes all up with trailer/engine etc. Roughly any 1.8 -2.0 cc motor will do it without going into weight towing ratios etc. I know a couple that trailer a Shrimper all over Europe with a 1.6 Suzuki thing, got to be 2 tonne...

 

[wotayottie]

Yes, that really is an important part of the question.

I can afford to overwinter down south but it leaves me with no boat to play with in winter, either to maintain ( the summer mooring is 4 hours driving away) or to sail up here. Its all a compromise as is most of life but in an ideal world I would like both comfort down there and the ability to trail.

 

[Boomshanka]

Why not eek out another 5 years or so out of your existing boat by getting her delivered (by sea or land) at the start of each season and back again - if that's the bit that's making you question your current setup? Then the next stage might be a trailer sailer for pottering around the bays and estuaries. I think the biggest thing you'd notice is lack of headroom (sitting headroom only is the 'norm', and if you've got a dodgy back, this can be tiresome moving around down below... also having to move stuff around to find the thing you're looking for (especially when trying to cook up a bit of grub)... then you get to the inevitable question of using the heads (quite often a 'portapotti' on a trailer sailer (although I had an Etap21i which had a sea heads and this was a bonus - that one is for sale again). Also a trailer sailer is fine if the weather's good... get stuck in port with too much wind and rain and it can be testing!

It might sound heretical here but the other alternative is a trailer sailer for day sails and the odd night away interspersed with some nights in a nice hotel/B&B

 

[PhillM]

I have seen trailer sailors craned in and out – instead of launched and recovered. If your planning on getting a short tem deal on a walk-ashore, I guess it costs a bit more to crane than launching yourself, but it does save the hassle and potential aches and strains.

Also, if you don’t want to pay for boatyard storage, there are a few local sites. I use this one for my caravan (they do boats as well) and there are even a few people who will tow it for you to the site or you could hire a car / van for a day.

http://www.roddingtonforge.co.uk/4.html

 

[Lakesailor]

Majority of larger trailer sailers you can "live in" are roughly up to 2. - 2.5 tonnes all up with trailer/engine etc. Roughly any 1.8 -2.0 cc motor will do it without going into weight towing ratios etc. I know a couple that trailer a Shrimper all over Europe with a 1.6 Suzuki thing, got to be 2 tonne...

It's not that simple. It is clearly defined what weight individual cars and models can legally tow.Very Very few "cars" can tow more than 2000Kgs

Look here http://www.uktow.com/towing capacity.asp

 

[Zagato]

Yes, that really is an important part of the question.

I can afford to overwinter down south but it leaves me with no boat to play with in winter, either to maintain ( the summer mooring is 4 hours driving away) or to sail up here. Its all a compromise as is most of life but in an ideal world I would like both comfort down there and the ability to trail.

I think your best solution maybe to keep your current set up and buy a small open boat trailer sailer for lovely winter days when its clear and crisp. They don't have to be a lot of money compared with something with a cabin which would justify owning two boats .

Not many live aboard on trailer sailers during the winter, the boat size generally is just too small for major insulation, espachers etc you really will be just roughing it although a couple go to the Arctic every year in one

With a smaller open boat you could also do rivers/lakes etc in the winter - great fun.

 

[Corribee Boy]

I use my corribee in the way you describe: I keep her on the East coast and trail her back to spend my time pretending to work on her here in my yard through the winter.

Launching and retrieving obviously depends on the facilities available. I have access to a gravel hard, I float the boat onto a 'dolly', which winches onto the trailer. That's the easy bit - then mast down, anchor and so on off the boat, tie everything down, and away. In practice it takes about two days of relatively active work to achieve this (single handed). The vibrations of unstowed gear when towed can cause a lot of cosmetic damage.

A boat takes on weight! The Corribee is nominally 900kg, but when I weighed her on the trailer, she was over 2 tonnes. This was despite moving anchor and chain, etc into the tow vehicle. This puts you into fairly heavy towing territory - Dylan started a thread on this earlier in the year and concluded that hiring a transit was cost-effective, and they'll tow more than most 4x4s.

I'm sure there are more spacious boats, but at 21ft I'm not in comfort territory, though I'm nervously happy in up to force 6 or so. Others doubtless know best but I'm not sure if more voluminous designs are as seaworthy.

The system works for me for a variety of reasons, such as owning tow vehicles and free winter storage here, but it's got a few drawbacks.
Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Blueboatman]

Thinking very generally. If you can get something really shallow draught that can be pulled up on a beach , AND with good sailing performance etc then you can get away with a tiny outboard and almost no anchors, warps etc, possibly a Win-Win.

Given that we are still as young as we feel..Would something really Drascombe like with a canvas cockpit 'lid' be enough and not too extreme?
If you towed it behind a campervan then sailing on sunny days, driving inland on wet ones might circumvent the possible frustrations of being stuck on a mooring for a week in bad weather..

By and by, I too had a Corribee like CorribeeBoy and ( having done one tradewind Atlantic passage) built a braked trailer and towed it the length of the USA but, whilst huge fun (and a whole different adventure in itself) the launch, hassle and 9mpg/50mph( 5litre v8) meant that one really allowed a day to launch, park, fuel and provision, sort stuff from car to boat and rest from driving etc...And it was always a bloody heavy load and potential liabilty on aggressively populated roads in bad weather.

 

[TSB240]

We have a 24 foot trailable yacht.

Our rule is crane in to salt self launch and recovery in fresh water.

We always take her home at winter but find minimal maintenance done during that period unless you have a spare empty industrial unit or a good 4 * 4 service awning/garage.from cost co etc.

We tow about 2,5 tonnes all up with a 4*4 bought cheaply and used as a third car most of the time. van rental makes more sense.

We plan to trail abroad every other year for extended holiday periods which can now be longer now partner retired. Otherwise we have been mooring or marina based in the uk.

We are happy to cruise sheltered waters all year with the occasional long offshore trip in summer months. Our boat is equiped with a sea toilet,2 burner hob and grill and has allowed 2 people to enjoy virtually every weekend afloat since the end of March this year.

Having sailed competitively all my life I wanted a trailer sailer that was sailed fast, was highly responsive, fun and safe to sail.

Can I recommend a modern design that meets the above.

No


I am very happy with our Trapper TS240 but then only 30 odd were made.

 

[ProDave]

The tread title is misleading.

the OP does not want a trailer sailor, bit a sail boat that can be trailered occasionally. a BIG difference.

Because the trailer is only to take tha boat home for the winter layup, the rigging time etc is not an issue as it would be on a true trailer sailor.

So it comes back to what you are going to tow it with, and that dictates the maximum weight of the boat AND the trailer.

 

[Retired in Crete]

Some years ago I had a trailer sailer which I kept, fully rigged on a trailer, in the boat park at Brightlingsea. It was then a simple matter to launch it and put the car in the boat space in the boat park. (No expensive car park fee.) I could launch and be sailing within 15-20 mins.

For the annual summer holiday we towed it to various parts of the country and for the winter I towed it home to work on it.

This has always seemed to me to be the best arrangement as you don't have to spend time rigging the boat each time you use it and the boat park was far cheaper and more secure than a mooring. In addition no antifouling is needed.

John

 

[TrailerSailer]

Before we wanted more from our sailing we had a "trailerable" boat - a Sportina 760. Weight around 2.5t, length on trailer around 28'. Towed it with a Disco. This had an auto box and I would highly recommend one for towing.

Experience of towing such a load was, to say the least, interesting and you will need all your skills. Keep the trailer well maintained; salt water does not do the brakes any good even if flushed immediately afterwards. Keep the speed down otherwise it is easy to loose the trailer to swaying. Despite being a 4 wheel trailer balance is critical and it is difficult to acheive that when floating the boat onto the trailer.

In the end we did what you are thinking of. Kept her on a swinging mooring in Southampton water during the summer and either at home or in the boatyard on the trailer during the winter. We did experiment with trailing from home each time, but the novelty soon wore off despite rigging her and launching in under an hour. Yes, the great advantage is a rapid move to a new area for holidays etc. This made up for the limitations of the boat as a Cat C.

As to the boat it was fun to sail and had the accommodation/comfort we needed. Nt many were sold. The boat bit is very much a personal choice and "horses for courses".

Would I do it again?? I'm not sure.

 

[dunedin]

Yes, that really is an important part of the question.

I can afford to overwinter down south but it leaves me with no boat to play with in winter, either to maintain ( the summer mooring is 4 hours driving away) or to sail up here. Its all a compromise as is most of life but in an ideal world I would like both comfort down there and the ability to trail.

I would be tempted to leave the current boat down south - possibly left afloat all year (in my view this tends to minimise wear and tear).
But then buy a cheap small boat (possibly dayboat) for sailing locally

 

[bluemoongaffer]

I trail and sail each year.

Almost by definition, if you want a boat to live on for a week or so, it will weigh over 2 tonnes by the time you've included the trailer and you're going to need a big 4 x 4 or a decent hire van / pickup. The latter is pretty economical - the last one I hired was £65 for the day. (NB It's only the very biggest Ford Transits that have a towing rating of more than 1500Kg. Look for a VW transporter (2500kg) or pick up truck or proper 4 x 4).

For this size of boat, unless you have a special trailer system and quite a bit of confidence with your tow vehicle on the (slippery) launch slope, launch and recovery is much less of a drama with a boatyard crane, which adds at least £220 to the annual cost

These bits get harder as you get older....
a) Moving the trailer around in your driveway. If you can't manoeuvre it with the tow vehicle, you'll need a winch system. It's hard work
b) Putting the mast up / down
c) Maintaining the trailer / pumping up tyres / checking lightboard etc
d) Strapping everything down (particularly the mast & boom) and doing a check of everything before leaving

 

[aquaplane]

My parents started out sailing doing just about what you are thinking of. They rented a Landrover twice a year to tow a Westerly Windrush home for the winter.
It took 3 or 4 people to put the mast up, much easier for a yard/crane. If you can afford it having a boat lifted in and out and rigged removes much of the pain and heavy work.
If you want to live aboard in caravan comfort I would be looking at a Paegent, Cirrus, TS240 or First 24, there are probably others, I don't know of any newer boats with headroom that can be trailed.
A trail sailer will be more like camping and not have standing head room, I don't think I would have a trail sailer when a trailable yacht would do.
A tug? I never thought I would have a Landrover but I now have a Disco 300TDi to tow my trail sailer. It is a bit more expensive to run than a car but I'm willing to pay the extra because it's so much easier to tow a boat that probably weighs 2Te, and it's an interesting vehicle in other ways too.

 

[wotayottie]

So it comes back to what you are going to tow it with, and that dictates the maximum weight of the boat AND the trailer.

Within reason I was looking at it the other way round ie what boat do I get, and then buy a suitable vehicle to tow it. Plenty of big 4x4 around these days and I suspect they arent that popular second hand any longer,.

 

[Zagato]

Plenty of big 4x4 around these days and I suspect they arent that popular second hand any longer,.

Quite the reverse with Discoveries and Defenders, Freelanders, not sure about the Jap models but sales of LR's are as strong as ever and second hand they are a premium (well maybe not Gaylanders!)

 

[DownWest]

Mate bought a 4lt Grand Cherokee for £900 not long ago (in UK). As it is petrol, not wanted, but suits him as he writes off the cost to expenses.
Around here, there is no road tax. And lots of people have spare 'summer only' cars, that are only used for the holiday season and insured as such. So buying an old LR or Pajero for towing looks attractive. MOTs last two years and are not so tough as UK, another plus. So that's my plan for my Cape Henry 21 when it finally hits the water. Fits the OPs discription of a trailerable sailer. No full headroom, but a decent hatch to put ones strides on. One was built with a higher cabin. Matter of taste, but looks OK.
My original idea was to trail to Greece for a month or so. Like the OP, in my mid 60s, I still think this is feasable, local sailing might look more attractive after launching....
DW

 

[Seajet]

Wotayottie,

as others have hinted, what you are lookig for is a boat which is trailerable, NOT a trailer-sailer !

My and other boats are ok to trail home for the winter* or to relocate once or twice in the season, but too big, heavy and complex to trail to slipways for the weekend - which I personally think a fools gold of sailing anyway, trailing anything bigger than a medium dinghy around the country, finding a space at a slip etc, is a serious pain.

*
There is a snag with trailing such boats home for the winter; these boats will usually be lift keelers, and with all such designs it is essential to get at the lowered keel plate for maintenance.

I and a lot of other owners use a half tide mooring - which is both cheap and closer inshore so a lot more sheltered than deep water - and have the boats craned onto high trestles at the clubs for the winter.

A friend has both trestles and a good trailer he bought new a few years ago; alternately trailing the boat home for the winter one year, left on trestles at the club the next.

He would never dream in a thousand years of immersing the trailer in salt water, in the spring he trails the boat to the club and has her hoisted in as the rest of the club boats are launched.

These 22' boats BTW have a claimed weight when new of 2,500lbs, but with the junk one accumulates in reality will be significantly more; legally and physically a vehicle like a Rangerover is required.

it is possible if one has good engineering skills - or pays someone who has - to adapt trailers so that even when trailed home for the winter, the boat may be raised and keel lowered for access.

My chum did this by adapting his, but a neater - more expensive - way would be to specify stub axles ( coventional axles run right under the keel ) and the tray which the keel sits on removable.

It is essential also to specify extra large hull supports.

With such a trailer, once home the boat could be lifted slightly on the supports, the tray removed and the keel lowered.

If you choose wisely , boats aroud this size can be fun to sail and a lot more seaworthy ( and spacious ) than the smaller pure trailer sailers.