Yantlet
Well-Known Member
Or maybe a caravan and a Mirror Dinghy?
That way you get to sail and have a warm dry bed at night!
The OK dinghy...is that the world's smallest cockpit?
- Thread starter Greenheart
- Start date
That way you get to sail and have a warm dry bed at night!
DJE
Well-Known Member
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
That's...a motorboat marina, isn't it, DJE? 
Thank you for recent comments. I certainly like the look of the Hunter 4.9, but I'm not in doubt that the Wayfarer is closer to what I want than anything else that's easy to find...
...there's no shortage of other attractive designs, but actual examples are generally in much shorter supply!
Thank you for recent comments. I certainly like the look of the Hunter 4.9, but I'm not in doubt that the Wayfarer is closer to what I want than anything else that's easy to find...
...there's no shortage of other attractive designs, but actual examples are generally in much shorter supply!
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blackbeard
Well-Known Member
On reflection, and seeing the way this thread is going, I think I must throw in the following observations.
Firstly. On the possibility of capsize. There is no conventional unballasted dinghy - not even a Wayfarer, and certainly not a GP14 - which can be guaranteed to not capsize ever. Others will dispute this, I care not. I have seen both these types capsize occasionally with competent helms and in circumstances where competent observers did not expect a capsize. It follows that if you sail such dinghies you must, unless in the presence of assistance, be able to recover from a capsize, which is usually not difficult but you must be satisfied in your own mind that you can do it.
Secondly. On sailing single-handed. FWIW I have found this easier in a smallish bilge-keeled yacht than in a dinghy designed for two or more people.
With a small yacht you do need a home mooring of some description of course, but other than that, overnight stops work perfectly well on an anchor, if you really fancy stopping on a beach the tide will do the work for you. And you can have a cup of tea while underway. What you can't do, of course, is enjoy the lively performance and ability to plane that you will get (to get back on topic) with an OK for instance. Nimrod may be the best of both worlds but I haven't sailed one. Your choice.
Firstly. On the possibility of capsize. There is no conventional unballasted dinghy - not even a Wayfarer, and certainly not a GP14 - which can be guaranteed to not capsize ever. Others will dispute this, I care not. I have seen both these types capsize occasionally with competent helms and in circumstances where competent observers did not expect a capsize. It follows that if you sail such dinghies you must, unless in the presence of assistance, be able to recover from a capsize, which is usually not difficult but you must be satisfied in your own mind that you can do it.
Secondly. On sailing single-handed. FWIW I have found this easier in a smallish bilge-keeled yacht than in a dinghy designed for two or more people.
With a small yacht you do need a home mooring of some description of course, but other than that, overnight stops work perfectly well on an anchor, if you really fancy stopping on a beach the tide will do the work for you. And you can have a cup of tea while underway. What you can't do, of course, is enjoy the lively performance and ability to plane that you will get (to get back on topic) with an OK for instance. Nimrod may be the best of both worlds but I haven't sailed one. Your choice.
ProMariner
Well-Known Member
Cheap
Quick
Comfortable
Portable
Useable SH or with new crew
Safe for coastal use
Can't have them all, at the same time.
Start with a one man kayak. Learn the basics at an outdoor school. Plan trips accordingly.
When you get tired of sitting in a puddle all day with sore arms:
Move up to a Laser/OK/Solo/Phantom. Learn how to sail it via a club/sailing school. Plan trips accordingly. When you get bored of sailing a plank on your own:
Move up to a wanderer/gp14/wayfarer. Spend a suprising amount on safety and camping gear, recruit a like minded crew. Plan trips accordingly, including, if you are feeling brave, multi day trips. When you get bored of living in a wetsuit:
Move to a day sailor. Hawk/drascome/squib etc. Still camping, but spending days in oil skinned comfort instead, with non sailing friends at times. Plan trips accordingly. When you get bored of sleeping under canvas and eating out of tupperware:
Get a small cruiser.
The joy is in the progression, and for a total of about 5 boat units of money, and 5 years, and you will have a better basis of seamanship than the average zero to hero yacht master.
Quick
Comfortable
Portable
Useable SH or with new crew
Safe for coastal use
Can't have them all, at the same time.
Start with a one man kayak. Learn the basics at an outdoor school. Plan trips accordingly.
When you get tired of sitting in a puddle all day with sore arms:
Move up to a Laser/OK/Solo/Phantom. Learn how to sail it via a club/sailing school. Plan trips accordingly. When you get bored of sailing a plank on your own:
Move up to a wanderer/gp14/wayfarer. Spend a suprising amount on safety and camping gear, recruit a like minded crew. Plan trips accordingly, including, if you are feeling brave, multi day trips. When you get bored of living in a wetsuit:
Move to a day sailor. Hawk/drascome/squib etc. Still camping, but spending days in oil skinned comfort instead, with non sailing friends at times. Plan trips accordingly. When you get bored of sleeping under canvas and eating out of tupperware:
Get a small cruiser.
The joy is in the progression, and for a total of about 5 boat units of money, and 5 years, and you will have a better basis of seamanship than the average zero to hero yacht master.
NealB
Well-Known Member
It's quite possible that Dan has already done many of the activities on your list!
lw395
Well-Known Member
Since Dan seems to want a lot of different things from his boat, maybe one boat will not do them all. There is nothing wrong with buying a dinghy this winter with a view to moving on after a couple of years.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Lots of good sense here, thank you. I particularly like the reflection that encountering every stage of boating from a kids' raft upward, (largely a question of wallet-evolution) is likely to instil a higher state of on-board competence than starting out with a forty-footer! 
I have, as Neal suggested, done most of the lowlier varieties in my time...though a good deal of my experience was enjoyed during riotously adventurous days of intoxicated, indestructable youth, and in all honesty I've probably forgotten as much as I learned...
...so, recent recollections of the way different boats perform, and the ways they inconvenience and endanger their users, are all thoroughly welcome and useful and interesting to me.
In spite of enjoying luxury when it's available, I'm a bit of a Carruthers when necessary...ultimately able to knuckle down in less salubrious accommodation - tents, hotel-room floors, car back-seats - and I get a thrill from feeling I don't to have to get home or find a more sophisticated (and overpriced) place to rest.
So as far as boats are concerned, I might prefer a cabin but I won't overlook open boats - because they're 90% of my experience, and I'm more interested in finding the best, most versatile open boat, than leap-frogging into a bigger, less handy division.
I really did make martinis while steering the Topper twenty years ago, south of Horse Sand Fort with an ugly bit of breeze spilling the olives and giving the crew and I moments of terror. My point is, even a Wayfarer is likely to feel cavernous after that, and much steadier...
...and the Wayf appears to have ample lie-down space, unlike the Topper...or the OK class.
Wasn't there a YM writer who espoused the "Minimum Boater" theory, which said that to a point, the smaller the boat, the better value it is? The less trouble to move, the less costly to berth and maintain, the quicker to paint...all surprisingly persuasive, I thought.
I have, as Neal suggested, done most of the lowlier varieties in my time...though a good deal of my experience was enjoyed during riotously adventurous days of intoxicated, indestructable youth, and in all honesty I've probably forgotten as much as I learned...
...so, recent recollections of the way different boats perform, and the ways they inconvenience and endanger their users, are all thoroughly welcome and useful and interesting to me.
In spite of enjoying luxury when it's available, I'm a bit of a Carruthers when necessary...ultimately able to knuckle down in less salubrious accommodation - tents, hotel-room floors, car back-seats - and I get a thrill from feeling I don't to have to get home or find a more sophisticated (and overpriced) place to rest.
So as far as boats are concerned, I might prefer a cabin but I won't overlook open boats - because they're 90% of my experience, and I'm more interested in finding the best, most versatile open boat, than leap-frogging into a bigger, less handy division.
I really did make martinis while steering the Topper twenty years ago, south of Horse Sand Fort with an ugly bit of breeze spilling the olives and giving the crew and I moments of terror. My point is, even a Wayfarer is likely to feel cavernous after that, and much steadier...
...and the Wayf appears to have ample lie-down space, unlike the Topper...or the OK class.
Wasn't there a YM writer who espoused the "Minimum Boater" theory, which said that to a point, the smaller the boat, the better value it is? The less trouble to move, the less costly to berth and maintain, the quicker to paint...all surprisingly persuasive, I thought.
jon711
Well-Known Member
Interesting that earlier on the Squib was mentioned, but not the Sandhopper, which is a Squib with a triple keel and will take the ground. Also surprised that the Kinsman was not suggested, as both the Sandhopper and the Kinsman tick most of your boxes.
Sand hoppers seem to be mostly in the Thames Estuary area on drying moorings...
Jon
Blaze711
Sand hoppers seem to be mostly in the Thames Estuary area on drying moorings...
Jon
Blaze711
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
As usual, you think that the kind of sailing you want to do is the kind of sailing everyone wants to do. It isn't.
Your sailing is not about speed. For a lot of people, myself included, it is. It requires skill, and it is fun.
Accept that not everyone is the same as you.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Can I rename this thread, "UNLIKE THE OK DINGHY"?
When I'm sailing in quiet - less travelled - areas, speed certainly isn't any issue, unless the boat is too pedestrian to work through a slight foul tide. But among other boats, particularly fleets of similarly-sized dinghies, I don't believe it's unnatural to want to keep up.
Granted, no small boat sensibly kitted-out for cruising will be a flier, but I'd say cruising yachtsmen's passage-planning can make these gents excellent judges of which designs are unneccessarily sluggish, and which ones are inherently faster and more efficient...
...and given a straight choice of otherwise-similar hulls & rigs, which of us would deliberately choose a slower one?
But when a range of benefits attend a hull that's wider/deeper/heavier/more solid (like the Wayfarer, I s'pose), then its noticeable sloth beside Fireballs and Moths is a small price to pay, because racing pace is scarcely relevant in that longer-range context.
I tend to think of the Wayfarer as being like a Landrover Defender - it's not modern or slick or quick or very efficient, it's terribly heavy and no great beauty...but it is marvellously tough, roomy and reliable, and will go almost anywhere in almost any weather...
...so for a wide range of moderately-adventurous plans and pursuits, it's probably the best bundle of compromises there is.
God, I sound like a salesman!
When I'm sailing in quiet - less travelled - areas, speed certainly isn't any issue, unless the boat is too pedestrian to work through a slight foul tide. But among other boats, particularly fleets of similarly-sized dinghies, I don't believe it's unnatural to want to keep up.
Granted, no small boat sensibly kitted-out for cruising will be a flier, but I'd say cruising yachtsmen's passage-planning can make these gents excellent judges of which designs are unneccessarily sluggish, and which ones are inherently faster and more efficient...
...and given a straight choice of otherwise-similar hulls & rigs, which of us would deliberately choose a slower one?
But when a range of benefits attend a hull that's wider/deeper/heavier/more solid (like the Wayfarer, I s'pose), then its noticeable sloth beside Fireballs and Moths is a small price to pay, because racing pace is scarcely relevant in that longer-range context.
I tend to think of the Wayfarer as being like a Landrover Defender - it's not modern or slick or quick or very efficient, it's terribly heavy and no great beauty...but it is marvellously tough, roomy and reliable, and will go almost anywhere in almost any weather...
...so for a wide range of moderately-adventurous plans and pursuits, it's probably the best bundle of compromises there is.
God, I sound like a salesman!
ProMariner
Well-Known Member
If you havn't lost your heart to the wayfarer yet, take a good look too at the wanderer. It has a nice, compact and light feel, being smaller, but is equally capable of camping and short coastals. If the wayfarer is a defender 110, the wanderer is a defender 90. Also, if you still like wayfarer size, have a look at the laser stratos. They replaced wayfarers at a lot of schools, are more comfortable, just as stable, and plane more often/earlier than any other training boat. Think more land rover discovery.
Both the wayfarer and stratos would be tricky for an average size adult to right alone, in any sort of wind/sea, smaller is better in this respect, if you plan a significant amount of SH sailing.
Both the wayfarer and stratos would be tricky for an average size adult to right alone, in any sort of wind/sea, smaller is better in this respect, if you plan a significant amount of SH sailing.
blackbeard
Well-Known Member
There's a version of the Laser Stratos with a 70 kg bulb at the bottom of its board. Will obvously be more stable (and heavier) than a normal Stratos, and less likely to capsize, and if it does then I assume it will be easier to right. I have sailed one and rather like it. It can be launched and retrieved like a normal dinghy (with the bulb retracted until immediately below hull) using a specially designed trolley and a slipway, but of course it's a heavy boat to pull up a slipway. Lots of space on board, and has an assymetric, and has single line reefing on main.
I'm told that it races on level terms with a normal Stratos and is probably fun in a blow.
To a rough approximation it's Wayfarer size, and probably similar weight or maybe a bit more.
But we are getting to the big (and maybe expensive) end of the dinghy market.
It was, I think, Uffa Fox (can someone tell me?) who said ...
the smaller the boat, the nearer the water and the better the fun.
Back to the OK?
I'm told that it races on level terms with a normal Stratos and is probably fun in a blow.
To a rough approximation it's Wayfarer size, and probably similar weight or maybe a bit more.
But we are getting to the big (and maybe expensive) end of the dinghy market.
It was, I think, Uffa Fox (can someone tell me?) who said ...
the smaller the boat, the nearer the water and the better the fun.
Back to the OK?
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Hmm, that's the problem, if it's a problem...I'm fairly happy with what I know of the Wayfarer; it's well respected and there are plenty out there. I can't say I wouldn't be tempted by another boat if it did something dramatically better than the Wayfarer...
...and if it was old enough to be cheap enough...
...but if such a boat exists, I've somehow missed it!
Now, an OK photo for anyone still reading this thread hoping it'll relate to its title...
View attachment 22826
Nice easy boat to launch and haul out, singlehanded...
blini
New Member
Hello - a zombie thread I know, but really rather interesting to follow its passage. Because of also turning over a similar set of questions over, I'm curious:
1. Did it end up being a Wayfarer?
2. Why did the suggestion of a Sandhopper, although a seemingly good fit in many respects, get no response or sign of love?
1. Did it end up being a Wayfarer?
2. Why did the suggestion of a Sandhopper, although a seemingly good fit in many respects, get no response or sign of love?
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Sandhopper's a pretty rare boat. Not especially cheap either.
It's funny that I was so keen on the Wayfarer. I still know they're great boats, and wonderfully versatile.
But in the end (six years ago, last week!) I chose an Osprey instead - quite similar, but longer, leaner, lighter and faster...and more challenging in a breeze, especially sailed solo. But she's a thing of such beauty, I'll never part with her.
It's funny that I was so keen on the Wayfarer. I still know they're great boats, and wonderfully versatile.
But in the end (six years ago, last week!) I chose an Osprey instead - quite similar, but longer, leaner, lighter and faster...and more challenging in a breeze, especially sailed solo. But she's a thing of such beauty, I'll never part with her.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Never part with her???
So what's all this silly talk of a Corribee then?( yet another thread) Or is that just the continuing saga of Dancrane's gradual realisation that he really needs to grow up one day, save some money, become a sailor, & get a "yacht" & not some "dinghy with, or without, a lid" & 2 silly little stubs stuck out the bottom
Will we live long enough to see the day????
Do I care- No not in the least-- but somehow I have to keep reading it to see how it pans out. :ambivalence:
Watch this saga with interest!!!!
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Kelpie
Well-Known Member
I hope it's not a crime to own a sailing dinghy *and* a yacht!
Maybe put davits on the back of the Corribee and use the Osprey as the tender
Maybe put davits on the back of the Corribee and use the Osprey as the tender
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Daydream, what an outburst! Surely you weren't inclined or obliged to give up your existing boat, when you acquired a second? Or is your Phantom just a ghostly memory?
No single boat does everything. Once I buy a yacht, I may think about a speedboat, too. :biggrin-new:
No single boat does everything. Once I buy a yacht, I may think about a speedboat, too. :biggrin-new:
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
You have not mentioned the Squib. Went up to 4 boats 3 weeks ago now I have acquired a launch !!! But do not worry I have not gone over to the dark side just yet.