The OK dinghy...is that the world's smallest cockpit?

Ah Dan Dan Dan...
it sounds like you want to tinker with whatever boat you get... believe me, long hours sat in the garage are much less fun than actually being out on the water!
Boat designers, and to a lesser extent owners, probably knew what they were doing. If in doubt, change nowt.

Secondly, some of the less well known dinghies go for absolutely peanuts. E.g. SWMBO's Graduate was advertised at £150, with three sets of sails and a combi trailer(we actually gave the seller a bit more because we felt bad!).
Sourcing a sail from a particular, perhaps unusual, class, in good condition, might not be very economical- buying a whole package always seems to be better value. So if you want to sail in a range of conditions, ow with differing numbers and abilities of crew, just buy two boats. It might not be all that expensive.

And I maintain that shortening sail on a doublehander will not make it as good as a proper singlehander. You can't make it responsive or easy to right from capsize just by reducing the sail area. It won't be any easier to launch or recover either!
It's a bit like saying you're buying a Ferrari and only going to drive it in 2nd gear...

Anyway, whilst this is fun, please oh please go and join a club and fit a towbar on your car.
 
Thanks Rob...but didn't you read my post, no. 36? In the small hours, it occurred to me suddenly, like a refreshed internet page, to focus only on the fun of being out in a boat rather than trying to fight off some absurd teenage sense of inadequacy with a squirt of speed...

...in truth, I don't find the shot of adrenalin from sailing cats, as enjoyable as the feeling of being aboard a purposefully-practical little cruiser (read Wayfarer/Bosun), the type which lends her crew a sense that relaxed long-distance journeying isn't out of the question.

Next time I ask whether anybody thinks I ought to buy a converted Olympic Tornado with a cuddy from a Squib and skegs from a Dart, featuring auxilliary power from a solar-trampoline, just ignore me...or just reply with a big bold "W". I'll know what it means. Thanks. :)

Of course, you're now in my firing line, for countless equally idle and irrelevant questions about the Wayfarer. I can be just as crazy in a monomaniacal way...:rolleyes:
 
Must have missed that one- glad to hear you're seeing the light!
Always happy to answer questions on Wayfarers, I can't pretend I know everything there is to know about them but I'll do my best :) Starting by saying that if you're predominantly going to be sailing singlehanded... well maybe a W isn't the right boat

(*runs for cover*)
 
Robwhelton said:
...maybe a W isn't the right boat

(*runs for cover*)
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I begin to detect a wind-up! :eek:

Not really. I know the reasons you say the Wayfarer doesn't suit singlehanding, but I maintain that compared with perhaps eight or nine-dozen other popular classes, it covers my probable use best...

...I remember helming, learning to sail in one during a fresh breeze thirty years ago, refusing to release the mainsheet as she heeled 30 or 35º, my mother and the instructor and I leaning further and further out, everyone yelling that it was time to throttle back...:rolleyes:

...so I'm not kidding myself that being a stable boat means it can't be overpowered. But, if I'm determined to be practical rather than egotistical, I can also recall the Wayfarer being neatly reefed and making steady, unexciting progress upwind without any dramatics...

...accepting (as you've said yourself) that the boat may not handle very fulfillingly under reduced sail for reduced crew-weight, when the same hull and rig would fly by given her full complement, will be a happier compromise for me than a smaller, more restricted-use design that's always tenable for my weight, singlehanded across a broad wind-speed range. How many roomy, tent-carrying singlehanders exist?

On that theme, (apologising for drifting my OK-class thread far out of its fairway), I'm curious if the Wayfarer association recommends a particular method of reefing as ideal? My training days saw reef-points, but possibly a roller-boom maintains sail-shape better?

Oh dear...stacks more Wayfarer questions...I can feel them bubbling up like too many beans in last night's Mexican meal...
 
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Reading the above i feel tempted to suggest a squib
There is a version adapted to a cruiser & with a bit of fiddling one could get somewhere to stick a lilo, portapotti & a small stove etc
Can be quite exciting in windy weather
Can sail SH
Stable but lively
Not sure of PY but i have no problem leaving our club wayfarers on a race course with a varied set of wind angles
Plus you do not have to lug the damned thing up & down the beach. That, incidentally, does stop some owners sailing on certain days
 
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dancrane said:
I'm curious if the Wayfarer association recommends a particular method of reefing as ideal? My training days saw reef-points, but possibly a roller-boom maintains sail-shape better?
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Roller reefing isn't so good for sail shape and imposes funny loads on the gooseneck. A well designed slab reefing system is quick and effective to use.
The main argument to be had is where you put your reef points. Some people advocate a single row, a little above the first batten. This is simpler and involves less bits of string. Others prefer two rows, the first being below the batten and the second about the same distance again up the sail. This is what I've done. It costs more to do, of course, and is more complex, but that first reef can be put in without a moment's hesitation with very little loss of performance. Going straight to a deep reef is more likely to be put off until it's too late, IMHO.
My setup has a reefing horn on the boom itself, for the tack eye, and for the outboard end a mini version of a yacht's reefing system, with the line led through the boom. This means you can do everything from the gooseneck area, and you can put in the reef before you raise the sail or whilst already underway. In theory I think I could reef singlehanded but I haven't had to do that yet. With two up, reefing and shaking reefs is pretty straightforward.

Apologies if it seems like I'm trying to put you off Ws... they are fantastic boats, but I know that when I'm singlehanded I am only about two fifths of the recommended crew weight, and on anything other than f2 days, it really shows.
 
Daydream believer said:
Where do you launch & recover. I am surprised you can do this single handed unless you have somewhere flat & hard , ie concrete, or can use the car
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Ideally, I leave the boat afloat.
Failing that, I converted my trolley to have an extra pair of wheels, and used a rope to the car. Not ideal though.
It's another reason why a W is far from ideal as a singlehander boat.
But the main reason against it is a safety one- righting from a capsize is almost impossible for somebody my size. It's always in the back of my mind when singlehanding out of sight of any other boats.
 
Daydream believer said:
So you would be better off with a squib perhaps
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Well, I haven't sailed one, and I think they might be fun, but tbh I don't think it's likely. SWMBO and I can recover the W relatively easily when necessary, and the shallow draft allows us to explore more interesting places.
As it says in my sig, we currently have three boats... so no need to add any more!

Whether a Squib suits Dan any better, well that's entirely dependant on his circumstances.
 
To state the obvious: if you go sailing by yourself (or, for that matter, with a crew if there's no one else about) you MUST be able to get out of any trouble you might get yourself into.
That means, of course, that you must be able to right a capsize (or else sail a boat that won't capsize which means all the complication of a heavy boat with ballast).
It also means that, unless you confine yourself to very boring weather conditions, you must be able to reef, preferably while afloat. You may have a problem with single-handed dinghies since not all of them can be reefed effectively.
OK, so that disposes of most of the boats discussed here ...

Incidentally. Reefing. Totally agree that slab reefing on the main is the way to go; especially, of course, if you have centre sheeting. Rolling the sail around the boom is a lousy way of doing it, you finish up with a very baggy sail (when reefed) which is not what you want. Also, I remember from 'way back sailing in boats that used roller reefing around boom, the sail quickly got wrecked - stretched flat as a board (when not reefed). If a slab reefing system is well thought out it's a quick and easy operation.

Despite the above I still think the OK dinghy is a lot of fun ...
 
I hope I never said a sincere word against the OK dinghy; I reckon it looks terrific, and with that tiny cockpit, I expect it's well able to avoid flooding.

I recall a fleet of Squibs anchored for a week at Seaview in 1985; I paddled my dinghy around them in continuous admiration.

Just the same, the Squib's minimum displacement is 680kg...that's four times the Wayfarer's weight, and the Wayf is no waif. So the Squib would be a step into a very different type of sailing. Not that I'm not tempted - but I haven't quite the Squib's budget...

...and I know I'd miss the option of wintering the boat in a small garage...plus that old chestnut, the freedom of dropping the hook in 12" of water, and of tidal creek-crawling, or of pulling the boat up to check for damage or to escape a boisterous night afloat.

I imagine sailing any small keelboat along any coast that's far from a deepish haven, involves significant risk in strong winds; whereas the Wayfarer's draft and weight needn't wholly prohibit her being dragged up a beach, if needs be. Not that I hope I ever have to!
 
dancrane said:
I hope I never said a sincere word against the OK dinghy; I reckon it looks terrific, and with that tiny cockpit, I expect it's well able to avoid flooding.

I recall a fleet of Squibs anchored for a week at Seaview in 1985; I paddled my dinghy around them in continuous admiration.

Just the same, the Squib's minimum displacement is 680kg...that's four times the Wayfarer's weight, and the Wayf is no waif. So the Squib would be a step into a very different type of sailing. Not that I'm not tempted - but I haven't quite the Squib's budget...

...and I know I'd miss the option of wintering the boat in a small garage...plus that old chestnut, the freedom of dropping the hook in 12" of water, and of tidal creek-crawling, or of pulling the boat up to check for damage or to escape a boisterous night afloat.

I imagine sailing any small keelboat along any coast that's far from a deepish haven, involves significant risk in strong winds; whereas the Wayfarer's draft and weight needn't wholly prohibit her being dragged up a beach, if needs be. Not that I hope I ever have to!
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You would need a cart horse to drag a wayfarer up a beach without a trolley.
Apart from a mooring, there is not much difference in budget between a Wayfarer and a Squib. Squibs that are not front of the racing fleet can be had for 3-figure sums. You might need to pay more if you want a fully roadworthy trailer rather than a yard trailer.
 
dancrane said:
whereas the Wayfarer's draft and weight needn't wholly prohibit her being dragged up a beach, if needs be. Not that I hope I ever have to!
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Hmm. It's been done by Frank Dye and some of the other Wayfarer cruising types but they were well prepared with anchors, large pneumatic rollers, long multi-part tackles and hauling-out eyes fixed low down on the stem. Not something I would like to attempt without that sort of kit unless mob-handed. On Wayfarer rallies I have done it by hand with a gang of 8 or more people round the boat.
 
I used to do an occasional shift in a warehouse where we had tiny hard plastic balls enclosed in a tough loop of plastic, which seemed to lubricate the movement of heavy boxes placed on top. I'm not even sure that's what they were for, I think they were just packing...

...but something similar would be a handy help for pulling a dinghy's dead-weight up a beach without scouring the paint off her bottom. I always thought the inflatable rollers look a very smart solution, provided they're fully inflated. Usable as buoyancy chambers too.

Good point about attaching the tow-line as low on the stem as possible. :)

I saw a Dell Quay Dory 13' (440lb even without its 40hp o/b) hauled up a steep slipway (on a trolley) in the 1980s, using an eight-part tackle that must have had 100m of 8mm line. Only moved the boat forty feet before he had to re-rig the tackle, but it worked. :rolleyes:
 
To be honest you need to sort out what you want to do
If you want performance sailing in a single hander then join a club & research what they have. These sort of boats soon get boring if you do not sail( race) in company with others.it os also hard to improve your ability. If you want to improve yourself racing is the way to go.

If you want to crawl up some filthy muddy creek on your own get a small shoal draft cruiser. You will spend most of your time covered in filth & stuck up some remote creek with nothing to do. So you need a cabin, a bunk, & a stove. Also check out Tony Smith's web site "Creeksailor" .Get a minimal centreboard yacht

If you want to sail up the coast get yourself a small bilge keeler & go cruising. The thrill of making a passage far outweighs the lack of thrill of speed. There are loads of people doing fantastic things in 20 ft or less yachts

If you want to day sail on your own & need a trailerable daysailer then something like a drascombe luger might fit the bill ( a lot of kinky types seem to like them although I cannot understand why--- that will set the forum alight! )

I imagine people like Frank Dye are few & far between & just like to see how far they can stretch themselves.
In any event it sounds like a wayfarer would not suit you. . The idea of retiring to a nice sandy beach with a cup of tea & a bed in a blow is just pipe dream. You need to be in the right area to start with & it does not always work like that
 
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Jeepers! I was thinking I'd already trimmed the excess off my dreams, when I accepted that a Wayfarer made most sense!

Alright. I'll try to describe what I hope to do, and then (with the help of anyone willing to chip in with advice) assess which boat does most, with least effort, least cost and fewest adverse aspects.

I picture a sunny Saturday (yes, unrealistic already...:rolleyes:) at a Solent or West Country quayside next midsummer...

...I greet a mate off the train/bus/taxi and we squeeze aboard whichever humble jumble of flotsam I can afford by then...

...we row, or wind permitting, sail out of the port/harbour and sail across St Austell Bay, or Poole Bay or who knows, Lyme Bay? Wherever, we'll sail with the intention of lunching in tolerable comfort en route, then finding either an established paying-berth at the other end, or a peaceful drying harbour with a pub, or at a pinch, a beach we can anchor off or haul out onto, to rest until we're ready for the next leg.

I won't mind roughing it under a boom-tent if there's genuinely space to lie down. I wouldn't mind a much lighter boat, if the design is still equal to coastal sailing in moderate conditions, and allows lying-down without lumbar damage. I'd only require that she be reefable.

I suspect this thread would raise the choler of any Dinghy-Cruising Club members, because the emerging theme seems to be how very limited a small boat is, even if it's heavy enough to be virtually impossible to move on shore! Or have I misunderstood? Hope so. :rolleyes:

As ever, thanks for all serious contributions. :)
 
Thanks for that, easier to point you in the right direction now (which, btw, is a Wayfarer, as always :D)

So let me see if I've got this correct:
- you'll be mostly sailing with a variety of crews, can I presume some of these will be novices? And some of the time you'll probably want to singlehand.
- you want a boat that's stable enough that, whilst underway, you are able to do more than just concentrate on keeping the damn thing upright. So you want a cleat on the mainsheet, you want some form of stowage, and you want enough stability to be able to eat lunch on the go. Maybe you want a roomy/stable enough boat for the crew and helm to be able to swap places underway. Maybe you want it to be possible for one person to relieve themselves over the gunwale- if you're planning longer trips don't underestimate this factor!
- you want enough dry stowage for overnight gear, and/or enough cockpit space to sleep two people
- you want to be able to take the ground, and ideally be able to drag the boat up a beach.

Are you going to buy a selection of wetsuits for your putative crews? If not, better choose a boat which can be confidently sailed all day without likelihood of capsize.


IMHO it all points to a Wayfarer or something similar. GP14, Wanderer, even a Drascombe, I think would all fit the bill.

It might all come down to whether you can get a mooring or not: if you can, then you can choose pretty much anything- including a Nimrod :) But if not, and you're dry sailing, the smaller and lighter the better. Launching and recovering bigger boats quickly becomes boring. If you are going to be singlehanding often, then even a Wayfarer is probably too big for regular launch/recovery without roping in bystanders.
 
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