flaming
Well-known member
Ooof. That's a bummer. Last I heard there's a wait of over a year to get a new IMOCA mast built. Hope they already had a spare....
The Ocean Race (ex-Volvo, ex-Whitbread)
- Thread starter dunedin
- Start date
capnsensible
Well-known member
Team Holcim-PRB was racing approximately 20 miles off the coast of Brazil in moderate winds and sea state.
The dismasting occurred just after 0500 UTC (0200 local time) on 27 April, on the fourth day of leg 4.
Team Holcim-PRB, the overall race leader, was in the lead at the time, 9 miles ahead of 11th Hour Racing Team.
The dismasting occurred just after 0500 UTC (0200 local time) on 27 April, on the fourth day of leg 4.
Team Holcim-PRB, the overall race leader, was in the lead at the time, 9 miles ahead of 11th Hour Racing Team.
dunedin
Well-known member
Yes big shame, race leaders out of this leg - Team Holcim-PRB has dismasted - all crew safe
capnsensible
Well-known member
Some nice drone footage.
dunedin
Well-known member
They are flying along - literally !
capnsensible
Well-known member
Near the end of the leg to Newport and it looks the small fleet is gonna have big winds. 50 mebbe 60 knots. Eek....
capnsensible
Well-known member
Guyot now dismasted, crew safe. Been a tough race.
dunedin
Well-known member
Another mast down - Yachts and Yachting Online - Sailing news as it happens
I suspect one of the issues is that these boats, and one design masts, are designed and optimised for solo sailing. With the extra crew on board this added weight on the boat and puts extra stress on the rig that it was not designed for. Plus racing upwind into a gale in a very close race it becomes a matter of how hard to dare to push vs back off the throttles, and perhaps didn’t back off soon enough.
PS. Before somebody suggests these boats are fragile, look at their incredible track record of staying together in the Southern Ocean at 30+ knots. Sailing fully crewed into a gale on foils will be unbelievably boat breaking conditions that any cruising yacht would never come near.
I suspect one of the issues is that these boats, and one design masts, are designed and optimised for solo sailing. With the extra crew on board this added weight on the boat and puts extra stress on the rig that it was not designed for. Plus racing upwind into a gale in a very close race it becomes a matter of how hard to dare to push vs back off the throttles, and perhaps didn’t back off soon enough.
PS. Before somebody suggests these boats are fragile, look at their incredible track record of staying together in the Southern Ocean at 30+ knots. Sailing fully crewed into a gale on foils will be unbelievably boat breaking conditions that any cruising yacht would never come near.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Mm, not sure about that. The technical effort that goes into the preparation of these machines is enormous.
These guys also talk a lot about when to take the pedal off the metal to preserve the yacht in heavy airs. The race reports from the boats have, for me, been fascinating.
Still, bad luck is....bad luck. Boats break in the most unexpected way. No doubt all will be revealed I due course.
I did wonder how they would cope after reading this yesterday evening:
Words from the front line: Amory Ross
These guys also talk a lot about when to take the pedal off the metal to preserve the yacht in heavy airs. The race reports from the boats have, for me, been fascinating.
Still, bad luck is....bad luck. Boats break in the most unexpected way. No doubt all will be revealed I due course.
I did wonder how they would cope after reading this yesterday evening:
Words from the front line: Amory Ross
flaming
Well-known member
The masts are a known issue in the IMOCA fleet.
The history is that in the 2000s and early 2010s the masts were open in that whilst there was max height and some other considerations, the spec was completely free for designers to play with. As a result the design and build of an IMOCA mast was getting very expensive, as the tech was pushed hard, and also there were a LOT of failures.
As a result, the class association (which don't forget is owned by the skippers) voted for a one design mast which would be robust but also (relatively) cheap and fairly high tech. All good, problem solved...
But.... The OD spec was based on the righting moment of the canting keels (which also went OD) and the righting moment of the shape of the boat, but never envisaged the righting moment of foils. And that's a big issue, as whilst the RM of the keel doesn't vary with speed, the RM of the foils very much does... So the faster the boat goes the more righting moment it has, and therefore the more load is going into the mast.
And it's not a simple fix... As the design loop for "well, just stick a stronger mast in" gets scary with upgraded fixtures to take all that load and then you start asking "what will actually be the first thing to fail here?". And the real issue is that the mast is the least worst thing to fail in that situation. As most of the other options result in big holes in the boat at best....
Learning when to back right off is really key in IMOCA sailing at the moment....
The history is that in the 2000s and early 2010s the masts were open in that whilst there was max height and some other considerations, the spec was completely free for designers to play with. As a result the design and build of an IMOCA mast was getting very expensive, as the tech was pushed hard, and also there were a LOT of failures.
As a result, the class association (which don't forget is owned by the skippers) voted for a one design mast which would be robust but also (relatively) cheap and fairly high tech. All good, problem solved...
But.... The OD spec was based on the righting moment of the canting keels (which also went OD) and the righting moment of the shape of the boat, but never envisaged the righting moment of foils. And that's a big issue, as whilst the RM of the keel doesn't vary with speed, the RM of the foils very much does... So the faster the boat goes the more righting moment it has, and therefore the more load is going into the mast.
And it's not a simple fix... As the design loop for "well, just stick a stronger mast in" gets scary with upgraded fixtures to take all that load and then you start asking "what will actually be the first thing to fail here?". And the real issue is that the mast is the least worst thing to fail in that situation. As most of the other options result in big holes in the boat at best....
Learning when to back right off is really key in IMOCA sailing at the moment....
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capnsensible
Well-known member
'When you have a lot of breeze you can only de power so much' is an interesting quote from onboard during todays race report.
An unpleasant night for all involved.
An unpleasant night for all involved.
DFL1010
Active member
Worth bearing in mind that for Holcim it was not a mast failure per se - the J2 swivel failed which caused the mast to fall.
I understand that Holcim are getting the class spare mast. I think 11th Hr have a spare, but not sure if I can see them lending that out. Lead times for new sections can't be quick.
I understand that Holcim are getting the class spare mast. I think 11th Hr have a spare, but not sure if I can see them lending that out. Lead times for new sections can't be quick.
flaming
Well-known member
Bearing in mind that there are 14 new boats being built for the next Vendee, and most of the existing fleet would want a new stick in the next 12 months too, so that they have a new mast for the Vendee, you're looking for a facility that can make IMOCA masts at the rate of circa 2 a month just to keep up with planned demand...
capnsensible
Well-known member
Enjoyed watching the rather slow start to leg 5. TV coverage of sailing events has improved no end. It was on Eurosport.
DFL1010
Active member
Holcim have skittled the 24hrs record: 640.9NM.
Previous record was 618, held by Comanche.
Of course, it's not a noon-to-noon run, so ...
Previous record was 618, held by Comanche.
Of course, it's not a noon-to-noon run, so ...
DFL1010
Active member
Now 641.13NM.
dunedin
Well-known member
Three boats showing on AIS whizzing close North of Orkney at nearly 24 knots.
(On Marine Traffic at least HOLCIM and Malazia are claIming to be “solo sailor”)
(On Marine Traffic at least HOLCIM and Malazia are claIming to be “solo sailor”)
capnsensible
Well-known member
Records being broken every day. 640 miles in 24 hours!
capnsensible
Well-known member
flaming
Well-known member
This one is going to run....