The new Bradwell wind farm.

[philiphurst]

I'm defo with DoM and Ianqv on this.

Mistakes are often a feature of progress. As a form of consolation for those against wind farms, take a look at the appalling architectural abominations from the 60s and 70s.

 

[Sixpence]

I'm defo with DoM and Ianqv on this.

Mistakes are often a feature of progress. As a form of consolation for those against wind farms, take a look at the appalling architectural abominations from the 60s and 70s.

A lot of which are being or have been demolished as people saw the light :encouragement:

 

[philiphurst]

That's what happens to some mistakes.

They are corrected.

 

[MoodySabre]

That's what happens to some mistakes.

They are corrected.

I expect these will be as soon as they reach replacement time with no subsidy.
The green thing has embraced backward technology instead of investing in the development of reliable means like tide.

 

[Sixpence]

In the meantime the sensible and I suppose the most suitable means is nuclear, but I know there are even better options and finding them should have been what the wind farm wasted funds should have been spent of

 

[philiphurst]

... and the irony is that vast sums of cash are being spent in the necessary decommissioning of Bradwell power station at the moment. It's almost inevitable that a new one will be built there in the future.

 

[Tam Lin]

I expect these will be as soon as they reach replacement time with no subsidy.
The green thing has embraced backward technology instead of investing in the development of reliable means like tide.

Yep, we could have a tidal barrage across the Blackwater, Crouch, Thames etc. Lots of lovely reliable energy, what's not to like?
(Ducks and runs for cover!)

 

[DavidofMersea]

I expect these will be as soon as they reach replacement time with no subsidy.
The green thing has embraced backward technology instead of investing in the development of reliable means like tide.

I am not sure what will need replacing when "replacement time" comes. The mechanicals will wear, but in the scheme of things, their replacement will not cost much - and presumably they will be replaced will the latest and more efficient workings

 

[DavidofMersea]

Yep, we could have a tidal barrage across the Blackwater, Crouch, Thames etc. Lots of lovely reliable energy, what's not to like?
(Ducks and runs for cover!)

There was a proposal about 20 years ago to put a tidal barrage across the Blackwater. If they did that, we would have a river always full of water, so we could sail from Mersea to Maldon any time we wanted. The proposal included a lock to let yachts out into the sea - So what's not to like?

 

[Tam Lin]

There was a proposal about 20 years ago to put a tidal barrage across the Blackwater. If they did that, we would have a river always full of water, so we could sail from Mersea to Maldon any time we wanted. The proposal included a lock to let yachts out into the sea - So what's not to like?

Wouldn't they have to pull the plug out to let the water flow out through the turbines so wouldn't the water level go down as usual? And what about the mud flats and the wading birds etc. etc. Still it would stop me getting automated phone calls from the Environment Agency whenever we have a tidal surge!

 

[wingdiver]

There was a proposal about 20 years ago to put a tidal barrage across the Blackwater. If they did that, we would have a river always full of water, so we could sail from Mersea to Maldon any time we wanted. The proposal included a lock to let yachts out into the sea - So what's not to like?

Sounds very much like the position the Dutch put in after the '53 floods.
Perhaps we could have dams, locks and sluices at various points along the East Coast....

 

[MoodySabre]

I am not sure what will need replacing when "replacement time" comes. The mechanicals will wear, but in the scheme of things, their replacement will not cost much - and presumably they will be replaced will the latest and more efficient workings

The Gunfleet is on a 20 year lease from the Crown Estates. I don't think I'll be sailing by then (but here's hoping).

 

[MoodySabre]

Yep, we could have a tidal barrage across the Blackwater, Crouch, Thames etc. Lots of lovely reliable energy, what's not to like?
(Ducks and runs for cover!)

Tide happens all over the place. Why a barrage? Anyway if they had locks that operated like those in Holland it would be no great inconvenience. The Blackwater could be the new Versemeer

 

[surekandoo]

According to my marine traffic app, there have been 3 ships messing about in the mouth of the Crouch. Further investigation revealed that the larger ship was a specialist vessel designed for transporting wind turbine legs. The other 2 ships were a shallow draft bulk freighter "Challenger" and the specialist tug with large hydraulic crane "MTS Vector."

Observing the activity it would appear that the turbine components were transshipped onto the Challenger from the large vessel, and the the Challenger appeared to be beached on the north shore of the Crouch and the components craned over the sea wall onto lorries by MTS Vector.

Challenger & MTS Vector currently at Sheerness where they seem to dock between loads.

There may be some info on the Crouch Harbour Authority web site now, but there wasn't when I checked last week.

 

[Tam Lin]

Glad things are moving by sea. Got stuck behind huge lorries several times when they were building the Bradwell wind farm!

 

[Stork_III]

According to my marine traffic app, there have been 3 ships messing about in the mouth of the Crouch. Further investigation revealed that the larger ship was a specialist vessel designed for transporting wind turbine legs. The other 2 ships were a shallow draft bulk freighter "Challenger" and the specialist tug with large hydraulic crane "MTS Vector."

Observing the activity it would appear that the turbine components were transshipped onto the Challenger from the large vessel, and the the Challenger appeared to be beached on the north shore of the Crouch and the components craned over the sea wall onto lorries by MTS Vector.

Challenger & MTS Vector currently at Sheerness where they seem to dock between loads.

There may be some info on the Crouch Harbour Authority web site now, but there wasn't when I checked last week.

Picture here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wvdfkyg66k4309p/PPhz1W9h2e/DSCF2713.JPG curtesy of dennyjc

 

[Burnham Bob]

Why am I against windfarms? To keep the lights on we need a reliable source of energy. We also do have a duty to the planet (regardless of whether you believe in global warming or not) not to pump out more products of combustion. When you finally weigh it up, nuclear power is the way forward. Did anyone notice that Chris Huhne was anti nuclear until he became energy minister then when he saw the real facts suddenly dropped his opposition? There are no votes in nuclear power due to the huge anti-nuclear lobby. Wind power was sold to the public as the answer - the politicians all wanted to be seen as green. Friends of the earth went round telling people on the dengie 'vote for the wind farm or they'll build a nuclear power station and you'll all die in the explosion' or words to that effect. Trouble is the government (both the previous Labour and the current Coalition) has woken up to the fact that new nuclear power is a necessity. In the meantime it has tried so hard to be seen to be green that it subsidized this dead end of wind power and is too embarrassed to own up - although cutting the subsidy was a tacit admission of guilt. Every wind farm you see on land is a monument to political weakness and greenwashing of the truth about the contribution wind power can make. Rant over.

 

[Tam Lin]

Why am I against windfarms? To keep the lights on we need a reliable source of energy. We also do have a duty to the planet (regardless of whether you believe in global warming or not) not to pump out more products of combustion. When you finally weigh it up, nuclear power is the way forward. Did anyone notice that Chris Huhne was anti nuclear until he became energy minister then when he saw the real facts suddenly dropped his opposition? There are no votes in nuclear power due to the huge anti-nuclear lobby. Wind power was sold to the public as the answer - the politicians all wanted to be seen as green. Friends of the earth went round telling people on the dengie 'vote for the wind farm or they'll build a nuclear power station and you'll all die in the explosion' or words to that effect. Trouble is the government (both the previous Labour and the current Coalition) has woken up to the fact that new nuclear power is a necessity. In the meantime it has tried so hard to be seen to be green that it subsidized this dead end of wind power and is too embarrassed to own up - although cutting the subsidy was a tacit admission of guilt. Every wind farm you see on land is a monument to political weakness and greenwashing of the truth about the contribution wind power can make. Rant over.

I have asked the following question on the forum and had no reply. Do we get more energy out of a windmill over its lifetime than we put into its manufacture, maintenance and removal? A clear answer to this would help me make up my mind if I am for or against them.
I agree that nuclear will have to play a big part in the future and when I lived on the Dengie many of my neighbours were in favour as they worked at the power station!

 

[NUTMEG]

Looked into a 2kw turbine for the garden to off set a bit of our leccy bill. After paying for turbine and installation the pay-back point was estimated at seven years. After that the leccy would be 'free'. The quoted design life of the turbine we looked at was 20 years. 15 years minimum on bearing replacement.

Allowing for greater efficiency and more advantageous location of commercial wind farms I would assume the payback point would be shorter. So I guess they do give more then they take in energy and cost terms.

If decommissioning (currently 100% subsidised by the tax payer) is factored in to nukes then I think they would not be cost effective. Peeps often talk about subsidised green energy but forget the cost of spent fuel storage and decommisioning. Also extraction and processing of uranium is environmentally and socially destructive and it's cost is spiralling as existing geo reserves are depleted. Not sustainable long term unlike wind.

We did not buy the turbine 'cos I spent the money on my first boat! So much for principles

 

[Bru]

I tend to keep my head down on this subject on the forums, especially on the lounge, as there is an entrenched anti-renewables lobby who are very vociferous to put it politely!

I'll risk it here on the ECF though

Nuclear is at best only a short term solution and even then is beset with problems. The cost of construction and decommissioning is significant, we have no local source of fissile material, demand for fuel may soon outstrip supply and it'll, like oil and gas, will run out eventually ( fast breeder reactors notwithstanding and if nuclear is to be the long term solution to our energy needs that's the route we need to take)

Then there is the thorny question of waste disposal. The problem was solved a quarter of a century ago but the solution was politically unacceptable then and would probably still be unacceptable today (a deep depository in Cumbria)

Going nuclear would be ok for a generation but it's no more viable in the long term than say shale gas

Renewable energy IS the future, we're just mucking about with the easy bits and not getting stuck in properly!

The most pressing requirement is for a means of storing energy. Whether that is advanced battery technology, hydro- electric pumped storage or accumulators, hydrogen fuel cells etc we need a solution and we need it quickly

Wind should be the least important element of renewable energy. It's got its place on the scheme of things but it's not reliable. We should be putting the money into tidal schemes but that too is a political hot potatoe

firstly, it would cost, initially, a lot more public money. The green subsidy now is peanuts really and even then a lot of it is passed on to the taxpayer/ consumer

and of course the very bunny huggers who are all in favour of green energy are horrified by the " destruction" tidal barrages would wreak upon their precious habitat

The day will, for sure, come when all of our estuaries are adapted for tidal power generation. doubt I'll be around by then though and I'll lay odds that the UK misses the technological boat (again)