The NAvy WERE THERE at kidnap of Lynn Rival

What should they have done?

Very simple order them to surrender tell them to surrender immediately or they will all die. Make it clearly understood that they must surrender or release their prisoners. Make sure that they understand that if they harm the hostages in any way they will all be killed. All they have to do is be robust, these pirates in in it for the money not to die. They are not fundamentalists and once they understand that they are not going to be allowed to leave whatever they do to the hostages they will surrender.

Once this operation is over seek and sink the mothership.
 
Britannia waives the rules

You and your wife are British. You're sailing in international waters. You're being kidnapped by terrorists. A Royal Navy vessel is right next to you. You cry out, but they do ... nothing.

What's happened to my country?
 
ps

i just like to add to my last posting .

we must be a joke to the rest of the world , can you see the french, yank , japan or even spain standing by and doing nothing .

what is the message we send out to anyone out there who want to do arm to us brits ???
 
Fiasco

I normally give this sort of stuff a wide berth, just wanting to stick to technical stuff.

However as a former merchant nay officer with a relative still serving in the RFA I am totally disillusioned.

Contrary to the impression given to the media that the Wave Class fast fleet tankers are merely civilian manned support ships they DO have defensive AND offensive armament and are manned by contingent of RN personnel. The BMRC 30mm is no popgun. It can fire up to 650 rounds a minute and a single shell is half a kilogram, the Wave boats have a twin mounting. Totally outclasses anything the pirates have and would have been totally adequate to control the situation until the warship arrived.

We now have hostages whose lives are under threat in a pariah state, how is this more dangerous for the hostages than allowing them to be taken back on board the mother ship, already subject of a hijacking and then preventing the mother ship from leaving and negotiate from a position of strength. .

In the days of the Iranian embassy siege, aircraft hijackings the message was “If the hostages die, be absolutely sure of one thing so do you”. The so called pirates are motivated by money not ideals.

We stamped out hijacking in the 70’s with the simple message of, if they die so do you.

Please tell me what is different here?

A covert payment WILL be made hostages released then the cycle will repeat itself, shame Israel has so few merchant ships nowadays, jumping one of them would be seriously damaging to pirates health!
 
sailaboutvic said:
And now what is the British Gov doing ? Again nothing , well done Mr Brown
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Actually the response has been swift and effective.

This morning the lead story on BBC News is some legal story about about the MOD considering 30 new cases alleging abuse of Iraqi citizens by the British Army.

So we can concluded the tin pot Royal Navy admirals won the battle of the MOD PR department and got this story leaked as a smoke screen. These cases would have been sitting on desks under review for months, there was no substantial Saturday event relating to this drawn out legal process.

The BBC has been duped by cynical MOD news management that is at the expense of the Army. The battle over 2010 defense cuts has started, round one to the Royal Navy.
 
I have a question for the Royal Navy apologists.

When was the last time members of a RN ships company were so incensed about the conduct of senior officers they felt obliged to leak a damaging story to the press about a very recent military operations?

I don't know the answer to that question but we can concluded personnel on the scene feel very strongly that intervention of some form was possible.
 
I sailed out of Portsmouth harbour this summer on the morning the Indian Navy task force arrived on a good will visit. The 3 Indian warships had a support ship tagging along that had already berthed moored near Premier Marina which meant I could pass by at a distance of 70m.

The Indian Support ship was bristling with heavy machine gun mounts and the crew strutted around with an air of military smartness and conviction. If I ever need help on the high seas I hope the Indian Navy steams over the horizon and not some wretched joke of a Royal navy ship.
 
what is the aim

I think we have to get back to the aim
is it
1. to secure the safety and release of hostage
2. to deter future kidnap/piracy
3. to capture and bring to justice the pirates
4. anything else ?

i am assuming the 1st goal would be to secure the safe release of hostage.
if this is the case the other aims have to take a back seat

from a political view no one will want to do anything until number 1 has been secured.

so a lot of the aggresive posts above which may secure the other aims would not secure the most important political aim.
dont forget at all times the hostaes probably had guns pointing at them and any aggresion by our navy could have had terrible consequences.
 
Some quotes from the Royal Navy's own web site.

April 2009

Via radio, Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship's own weapons team to provide cover. The pirate vessel complied.

The Commanding Officer of RFA Wave Knight, Captain Pilling, said:

"RFA Wave Knight is a modern replenishment ship designed to be able to support a myriad of coalition maritime operations. Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa."

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operati.../news/rfa-wave-knight-disrupts-pirate-attacks

The Commanding Officer

Operational experience was primarily gained during the Falklands Campaign in RFA Resource; in the former Yugoslavia and the Adriatic in RFA Sir Bedivere and later in HMS Invincible and HMS Illustrious as the Logistics and RFA Operations Staff Officer

achieving a Master’s Degree in Defence Studies and on completion, he briefly assisted DEC(ELS) in the MOD

Captain Dorey ... enjoys a variety of recreational pursuits, from country walks, motorcycles and shooting

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operati...t-tankers/rfa-wave-knight/commanding-officer/
 
Ah well at least the pirates didn't capture the RFA ship, maybe with a bit of initiative they could've threatened the hostages and forced the Captain to surrender?
 
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Havn't read all thread so sorry if its been said but today in news it appears that the French have caught/killed some(12) pirates + also attacked a mother ship. Its not the first time the French have done this French yacht last year pirates killed + 1 hostage shame about the hostage .But seems the French are the only ones with guts to take a hard line.

Also apparently pirates have captured a ship full of cruise missles +ground attack !
 
David_Jersey said:
IMO the country would be better served if the RN remained in port (somewhere safe, like central Birmingham :rolleyes: ), at least then no one would know they were no longer a fighting force..........rather than wandering the world being a national embarassement every time they encounter any hostiles.

Maybe it's time to rename the RN? to more reflect it's modern purpose, capabilities and ethos.
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You wouldn't find them in Birmingham, much too dangerous, instead, they spend most of their time in and out of Afghan. Ironicly fighting brummies...... :D
 
alanhanson said:
I think we have to get back to the aim
is it
1. to secure the safety and release of hostage
2. to deter future kidnap/piracy
3. to capture and bring to justice the pirates
4. anything else ?

i am assuming the 1st goal would be to secure the safe release of hostage.
if this is the case the other aims have to take a back seat

from a political view no one will want to do anything until number 1 has been secured.

so a lot of the aggresive posts above which may secure the other aims would not secure the most important political aim.
dont forget at all times the hostaes probably had guns pointing at them and any aggresion by our navy could have had terrible consequences.
Click to expand...

I would swap your first two priorities around but regardless the tally is:

  1. Hostages still in danger and their safety and release is now even more difficult to secure.
  2. Piracy encouraged by the sight of Military Vessel standing by and doing nothing but watching the kidnapping taking place.
  3. Absolutely zero pirates bought to justice.

The one guarantee is that doing nothing won't improve things. Yes, it might make it worse but a possible outcome was harm to the hostages and an almost guaranteed outcome was capture of (or harm to) the pirates.

The inaction effectively guaranteed no harm and freedom to the pirates while not achieving any significant benefit to hostages.
 
Hmm this situation seem typical of other services .. I recall somthing about the police letting somebody drown because they had no heath and safety training for water also Paramedics threatened with the sack if they help injured ....
 
flyingscampi said:
Ah well at least the pirates didn't capture the RFA ship, maybe with a bit of initiative they could've threatened the hostages and forced the Captain to surrender?
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that really made me laugh.

on a more serious note,we are told HMS Cumberland was 2 hours steaming distance.
doesn't that ship have fully trained helicopter force ready to go
I just can not imagine what the poor Chandlers thought,it must have been hell
 
drawkins said:
I just can not imagine what the poor Chandlers thought,it must have been hell
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Not only are the pirates demanding all their savings but they stripped the boat of anything of any value.

It seems there is no alternative but to consider the western half of the Indian Ocean as a no-go zone.
 
robertj said:
one poster wrote that the French will protect its citizens and it seems very true.
I wonder how many french yachts etc with French crews will be taken by the Pirates?
Or will these Pirates think theat maybe leave the French alone as its not worth being shot dead when the French special forces arrive.
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Thats the answer, if you are going sailing through that area take down the Ensign and up with the French flag
 
I have read this correspondence with some interest, there is a fairly high percentage of folk telling me that the RFA is not able to intervene, has no ability to operate , etc., I also hear that the captain would have been under orders, OK then, if this is so bloody clear and cut why did the government not feel able to explain this at the time, why is it that until some crew member feels they have to be honest, that the powers to be lie and gloss over the reports?
 
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