The NAvy WERE THERE at kidnap of Lynn Rival
- Thread starter FullCircle
- Start date
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
"And going round in circles"
Must be a record then.
Must be a record then.
Danny_Labrador
Well-Known Member
Don't know what this adds to debate but it must be something!
Just watched a recorded program on QUEST (Freeview) - Mighty Ships, (make a note of this anyway - its a really good series).
Anyway this program featured HDMS ABSALON - a Danish war ship stationed in the Red Sea undertaking and coordinating the operations of the Coalition of Willing members off the Somalian coast
See program web page here :-
http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/mighty-ships-/mighty-ships-season-2/mighty-ships-hdms-absalon/#clip201650
Scroll down the story line bottom left of screen to see what happen in the program.
Basically this ship is really set up for this task and whilst it was just a program they did try to convey that they had ALL the tools for the job on board - snipers, armed helicopter, SAS types etc.
They took two lots of pirates back to the ship during two separate actions - one got arms confiscated and let go, (complications with international law), the others arrested.
What they can do once they apprehend seems to depend on what the national government of the vessel under attack say they can do.
In the case of the pirates arrested it was a Dutch flagged merchant vessel and the Dutch asked the captain in real time for hard evidence - they had it with video etc. and the Dutch agreed to have them brought back to Holland for trial. The captain said that they were Dutch nationals under attack therefore the Dutch could decide what should happen to the pirates.
You really have to see the program but the thing that really came across was they the Capitan appeared to act autonomously and once they arrived on scene with an armed helicopter (Lynx ?) and umpteen high speed armed RIBS the pirates knew the game was up and just handed themselves in. The helicopter fired a short burst of machine gun fire at an attacking pirate boat and they all jumped immediately in the water.
QUEST - will they repeat it ? I could try to put it on a DVD.
Make of that what you will but it made me think that if this vessel hand been involved in the Lynn Rival incident they would be back in the UK now and the pirates up at the Old Bailey. It was very impressive.
We should hear more about what other nations are doing out there.The British seems to be a bit confused.
Just watched a recorded program on QUEST (Freeview) - Mighty Ships, (make a note of this anyway - its a really good series).
Anyway this program featured HDMS ABSALON - a Danish war ship stationed in the Red Sea undertaking and coordinating the operations of the Coalition of Willing members off the Somalian coast
See program web page here :-
http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/mighty-ships-/mighty-ships-season-2/mighty-ships-hdms-absalon/#clip201650
Scroll down the story line bottom left of screen to see what happen in the program.
Basically this ship is really set up for this task and whilst it was just a program they did try to convey that they had ALL the tools for the job on board - snipers, armed helicopter, SAS types etc.
They took two lots of pirates back to the ship during two separate actions - one got arms confiscated and let go, (complications with international law), the others arrested.
What they can do once they apprehend seems to depend on what the national government of the vessel under attack say they can do.
In the case of the pirates arrested it was a Dutch flagged merchant vessel and the Dutch asked the captain in real time for hard evidence - they had it with video etc. and the Dutch agreed to have them brought back to Holland for trial. The captain said that they were Dutch nationals under attack therefore the Dutch could decide what should happen to the pirates.
You really have to see the program but the thing that really came across was they the Capitan appeared to act autonomously and once they arrived on scene with an armed helicopter (Lynx ?) and umpteen high speed armed RIBS the pirates knew the game was up and just handed themselves in. The helicopter fired a short burst of machine gun fire at an attacking pirate boat and they all jumped immediately in the water.
QUEST - will they repeat it ? I could try to put it on a DVD.
Make of that what you will but it made me think that if this vessel hand been involved in the Lynn Rival incident they would be back in the UK now and the pirates up at the Old Bailey. It was very impressive.
We should hear more about what other nations are doing out there.The British seems to be a bit confused.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Sums it up.
We choose intelligent, well informed professionals to captain our ships, not slack jawed, redneck buffoons on the internet.
alant
Well-Known Member
You don;t have to admit it so publically Toad!
alant
Well-Known Member
Don't know what this adds to debate but it must be something!
Just watched a recorded program on QUEST (Freeview) - Mighty Ships, (make a note of this anyway - its a really good series).
Anyway this program featured HDMS ABSALON - a Danish war ship stationed in the Red Sea undertaking and coordinating the operations of the Coalition of Willing members off the Somalian coast
See program web page here :-
http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/mighty-ships-/mighty-ships-season-2/mighty-ships-hdms-absalon/#clip201650
Scroll down the story line bottom left of screen to see what happen in the program.
Basically this ship is really set up for this task and whilst it was just a program they did try to convey that they had ALL the tools for the job on board - snipers, armed helicopter, SAS types etc.
They took two lots of pirates back to the ship during two separate actions - one got arms confiscated and let go, (complications with international law), the others arrested.
What they can do once they apprehend seems to depend on what the national government of the vessel under attack say they can do.
In the case of the pirates arrested it was a Dutch flagged merchant vessel and the Dutch asked the captain in real time for hard evidence - they had it with video etc. and the Dutch agreed to have them brought back to Holland for trial. The captain said that they were Dutch nationals under attack therefore the Dutch could decide what should happen to the pirates.
You really have to see the program but the thing that really came across was they the Capitan appeared to act autonomously and once they arrived on scene with an armed helicopter (Lynx ?) and umpteen high speed armed RIBS the pirates knew the game was up and just handed themselves in. The helicopter fired a short burst of machine gun fire at an attacking pirate boat and they all jumped immediately in the water.
QUEST - will they repeat it ? I could try to put it on a DVD.
Make of that what you will but it made me think that if this vessel hand been involved in the Lynn Rival incident they would be back in the UK now and the pirates up at the Old Bailey. It was very impressive.
We should hear more about what other nations are doing out there.The British seems to be a bit confused.
This is the one I saw.
Action this day & result achieved.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Yes, brilliant. Although, no hostages involved, of course.
The British have captured plenty of pirates who don't have hostages. They've even captured pirates with hostages where circumstances allow. (Indeed this RFA has been involved in such operations.)
This RFA is doing a great job, on this occasion it found some hostages it couldn't rescue safely and the armchair generals get hysterical.
Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
If you saw it, I presume it didn't take place at night, like the Lynn Rival incident did. Makes a very big difference even with todays see in the dark technology.
David_Jersey
Well-Known Member
A small snippet in the local rag today recounting an anti piracy tale from Malaya (1947?).
Local commies took to seizing fishing vessels, army responded by putting Gurkhas on a fishing boat as bait - armed with a bren gun and............a flamethrower
Apparently didn't take the commie pirates long to desist
"Do you want your human rights well done or medium rare?"
Some things really are that simple to solve - just takes a bit of willpower.
Local commies took to seizing fishing vessels, army responded by putting Gurkhas on a fishing boat as bait - armed with a bren gun and............a flamethrower
Apparently didn't take the commie pirates long to desist
"Do you want your human rights well done or medium rare?"
Some things really are that simple to solve - just takes a bit of willpower.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
David has hit the nail on the head (or the blue touch paper...) as usual! 
Maybe the 'authorities' (whoever they might be) should give 'Letters of marque' to the modern day Privateers (I am thinking of these Russian 'hunt a pirate' cruises) and see what happens.......
Maybe the 'authorities' (whoever they might be) should give 'Letters of marque' to the modern day Privateers (I am thinking of these Russian 'hunt a pirate' cruises) and see what happens.......
Clarky
Well-Known Member
Woodlouse Toady,
Quite an apt name for both of you.
The thing is that the trained men on the scene have leaked the true story,and clearly wanted to intervene,the story given out by the Navy Sealord Stanhope fooled you and a few others until the leak.
You are very voiciferous on this matter ,what do you say about the Navy Sealord who made these decisions ,and then not being truthful about them.
You seem unable to comment on this deception.
Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
No need to get personal.
Given the chance enlisted ranks would go in guns blazing into every situation they encounter. It's what they've been trained for. Thats why the military has officers to decide when and where the enlisted men are let loose to best effect. Just because some matelot reckons that they should have gone into action does not mean that it would have been a good idea.
Clarky
Well-Known Member
I asked you to comment on the cover up ansd subsequent lies from those officers in charge - why havent you ?
I think your comments re enlisted personnel are insulting ,in my opinion there are plenty of officers who are twits and whoever was in charge of this fiasco was not only that ,but they cant either own up or tell the truth about it.
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Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
Who am I to comment on why the MOD decides to withhold information? Maybe they didn't want the world and his wife to know the situation because it's still something they're trying to solve. I think it's common knowledge that military operations are more successful when they're carried out in secret.
Clarky
Well-Known Member
Dear Woodluse ,
As this had already been plastered around the world by the media ,I dont think you believe that,why you are you so determined to avoid any criticism of this fiasco and cover up ,are you really Sea Lord Stanhope ?
Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
The RN's comments are in reaction to a leak to the press. They are no different to comments made by any other body that has had information revealed when they didn't want it to be.
Now tell me, why do you think that an RFA ship should have launched an improvised operation, at night, against two vessels with an unknown number of hostile personnel holding two hostages with only a small number of trained men who are only trained in ship boarding tactics, and not hostage rescue?
David_Jersey
Well-Known Member
Clarky
Well-Known Member
Dear wood Louse,
Because the goverment says it wont negotiate with terrorists or kidnappers and wont pay ,so now they are doomed cos that was their last chance to get rescued.
As has been pointed out loads of times, Mr Stanhope,it would have been a simple matter to prevent the pirates getting to the mother ship.
I see you are twisting the truth again,with "only a small number of trained men who are only trained in ship boarding tactics, and not hostage rescue?" There were Royal Marines on board,and in any case if they had been prevented from getting to the mother ship there was all the time in world to wait for any experts they were short of.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
What a nasty, arrogant and insulting post. I was an "enlisted rank" and then an NCO. You have just dismissed me (and tens of thousands of other people serving their country) as a brainwashed murderer incapable of thought or decision-making and busting for a fire-fight. How dare you assume that you know so much more than an "enlisted rank"? What makes you so superior that you know better than them? How dare you suggest that officers "let loose" their men "to best effect"? What do you think servicemen and women are? Pawns on a chessboard that can easily be sacrificed for the game?
You really don't have the first idea of what the armed forces are like, that much is quite obvious, so don't talk as if you have. I suggest a little less time playing computer games or wherever else you get your strange ideas of the modern UK military from and a little more actually thinking about what you say or write. How on earth do you think someone who behaves the way you describe them would survive in a situation like Northern Ireland, Iraq or Afghanistan? Did you notice screaming bloodthirsty hordes in the Falklands? I have no idea whether you posted this without thinking what drivel you were writing or whether you were deliberately being insulting but I agree with the previous poster - crawl back under your stone or rotten log or wherever you came from.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Really?
a) The mail will have paid their source very well for a newsworthy story like "RN deserts hostages". I doubt they'd have paid much for something as mundane as "Usually we can capture pirates if circumstances allow but on this occasion it didn't work out for very good reasons."
b) He didn't tell the true story did he? He's quoting as saying there were no hostages when in fact there were.