The Most Rubbish 'Mayday' You've Heard?

[xyachtdave]

This is really quite offensive. Are you saying that until I pass numerous courses, and months/years of dry land training, I shouldn't ever go on the water??

Stuff this sailing lark for a laugh! I'll find a new hobby!

Fortunately, I've found a really friendly sailing club, teeming with really helpful, friendly people who bend over backwards to give me advice, sometimes come out with me and give me the benefit of their wisdom. Without any sneering "novice" put-downs.

So I WILL be going out on the water on my own as a novice, and hopefully I don't bump into anyone like you if I ever get into trouble!

Take no notice Chris - there's one poster on here (but maybe more...), with thousands of posts under his belt advising on everything from crossing the Atlantic to spinnaker flying, who I know to be seriously lacking in experience.

I'm not saying he's not a nice guy - just don't believe everything you read!

Chaps, I've noticed Chris making a fine effort sailing all winter in weathers the 'Internet Expert' wouldn't dare go out in - good man, your enthusiasm for our past time is top drawer!

 

[jbweston]

Take no notice Chris - there's one poster on here (but maybe more...), with thousands of posts under his belt advising on everything from crossing the Atlantic to spinnaker flying, who I know to be seriously lacking in experience.

I'm not saying he's not a nice guy - just don't believe everything you read!

Chaps, I've noticed Chris making a fine effort sailing all winter in weathers the 'Internet Expert' wouldn't dare go out in - good man, your enthusiasm for our past time is top drawer!

+1

There are some people around the forum who are just impolite - brusque, discounting other people's views, and using a hectoring tone. I guess they don't mean any harm and the best thing is to try to ignore them.

There's nothing wrong with gaining experience and learning for yourself as long as you are careful and don't overstretch yourself. Not everyone learns well from the 'Me expert, you incompetent' style of training. In fact I wonder if anyone does. It reminds me of Basil Fawlty!

Chris, get out on the water, enjoy yourself and learn in your own way. Have a great time.

 

[Scomber]

+1

There are some people around the forum who are just impolite - brusque, discounting other people's views, and using a hectoring tone. I guess they don't mean any harm and the best thing is to try to ignore them.

There's nothing wrong with gaining experience and learning for yourself as long as you are careful and don't overstretch yourself. Not everyone learns well from the 'Me expert, you incompetent' style of training. In fact I wonder if anyone does. It reminds me of Basil Fawlty!

Chris, get out on the water, enjoy yourself and learn in your own way. Have a great time.

+1 - very well said sir!

 

[Seatrout]

Next time I fly Emirates I'll check that there is an inexperienced skipper with a novice crew. This appears to be acceptable to the group, so why should I be the exception?
And yes, please lets not have this lighthearted post devolve into the licensing debate.

 

[Uricanejack]

I'm sure it would have been rather fun to sail with Basil Faulty, Polly, Manwell and the Major not sure about Cybil

 

[fireball]

Should we accept a 999 call for a stubbed toe? No? Then why should we accept a mayday call for a lost corkscrew?

 

[chewi]

Next time I fly Emirates I'll check that there is an inexperienced skipper with a novice crew. This appears to be acceptable to the group, so why should I be the exception?
And yes, please lets not have this lighthearted post devolve into the licensing debate.

very different circumstances , so your analogy is not appropriate

The pilot has hundreds of passengers in his care.
If it goes wrong they will all prob. die, so due diligence says he has to be highly qualified. They get experience flying simulators before they are let loose



The Sailor has only himself and a friend who is likely to know he has little experience , even if he's passed tests, and they go out together to get it.
I am not aware of any adequate sailing simulators.
You dont get experience sailing the internet, you have to do it.
If it goes wrong he might recover all by himself, if not its not unreasonable to call for help responsibly .

 

[fireball]

If it goes wrong he might recover all by himself, if not its not unreasonable to call for help responsibly .

you've got a keyword there - responsibly ...

Whilst I don't think we should legislate who can/can't go to sea - those that do should do everything in their power/ability to shoulder the responsibility of skippering a vessel.

 

[ChattingLil]

Take no notice Chris - !

yer, well said Dave.

OK, ignorant question from me. Are we just debating semantics and use of a word? After all the effect is just the same. Someone on the radio, calling for help and either getting it or not. Does it matter whether it was a Mayday, Pan Pan or a casual chat with the coast guard that resulting in getting more help than was expected?

I speak from my personal experience when I made a cock-up on a North Sea passage and found ourselves floundering around in the Harwich shipping lanes. I called the Coast Guard for an update on weather and to ask them to warn any ships that we were there and not making any progress. It was all completely my fault, but nonetheless, that's the situation we were in. After an hour the CG called back to ask if we wanted assistance and we gratefully accepted a tow from Harwich Life Boat.

When we got back the Lifeboatman was extremly supportive and stated - as has been said above - they would rather come out to ASSIST someone before the situation becomes critical, than come out LOOKING for them the following day.

That night I learned more about my boat and my sailing and what I could have done better than I could ever have learned in a classroom.

 

[Seatrout]

Someone on the radio, calling for help and either getting it or not. Does it matter whether it was a Mayday, Pan Pan or a casual chat with the coast guard that resulting in getting more help than was expected?

Just to address the general ignorance evidenced heron: You are legally obliged to respond to a Mayday on hearing it..... so there is a big difference between a Mayday, a Pan Pan and a 'casual chat'.

This obligation is to be found in both the SOLAS Regs and in UNCLOS.

(No wonder the authorities and professionals refer to yachties as WAFIs!)

 

[ChattingLil]

thanks for the reasoned reply.

What is WAFI?

(I don't expect to be complimentary).

 

[Koeketiene]

Just to address the general ignorance evidenced heron: You are legally obliged to respond to a Mayday on hearing it..... so there is a big difference between a Mayday, a Pan Pan and a 'casual chat'.

This obligation is to be found in both the SOLAS Regs and in UNCLOS.

In a nutshell.
Mayday basically says: "everybody, drop everything and help me - now!"

It's the marine equivalent of pulling the emergency cord on a train.
How would you feel if a passenger on the train you are travelling on pulls the emergency cord because he/she has lost a contact lens?

 

[winsbury]

Just to address the general ignorance evidenced heron: You are legally obliged to respond to a Mayday on hearing it..... so there is a big difference between a Mayday, a Pan Pan and a 'casual chat'.

This obligation is to be found in both the SOLAS Regs and in UNCLOS.

(No wonder the authorities and professionals refer to yachties as WAFIs!)

I was taught that (inshore) one should wait to see if the coastguard responds initially so that they can take charge and co-ordinate otherwise 16 could be jammed with responses in a busy water such as the Solent. Only if there is no CG response in a reasonable time ( 4 mins ) should one respond and issue a Mayday Relay to the CG if, for example, the vessel in trouble is out of VHF range of the CG ( a handheld VHF for example might be able to reach you but not the coast. )

 

[Koeketiene]

I was taught that (inshore) one should wait to see if the coastguard responds initially so that they can take charge and co-ordinate otherwise 16 could be jammed with responses in a busy water such as the Solent. Only if there is no CG response in a reasonable time ( 4 mins ) should one respond and issue a Mayday Relay to the CG if, for example, the vessel in trouble is out of VHF range of the CG ( a handheld VHF for example might be able to reach you but not the coast. )

Sound advice.

 

[Koeketiene]

thanks for the reasoned reply.

What is WAFI?

(I don't expect to be complimentary).

Wind Assisted Fffff-ing Idiot

 

[ChattingLil]

In a nutshell.
Mayday basically says: "everybody, drop everything and help me - now!"

It's the marine equivalent of pulling the emergency cord on a train.
How would you feel if a passenger on the train you are travelling on pulls the emergency cord because he/she has lost a contact lens?

Thanks - I do get the point. Not arguing and well put.

Another ignorant question then - what happens if the yachtsman concerned continues to call it a mayday even after being asked (after investigation/questionning) to downgrade the call to, say, a pan-pan or another status. for eg as above, someone running late for an appointment and there's no wind. They call a false mayday. Just because it's a false mayday ... are people still obliged to assist? Even if everyone concerned knows they are just after a free and quick tow home?

I'm asking because there have been plenty of posts on this forum about people being treated as if they have made a mayday (ie RNLI 'rescuing' them even if they didn't want or need the help) so that's what was in my mind when I asked the question about the difference in the terminology. I think I was questionning whether it matters to the rescue party how the call was heard in the first place, because they do about it depends on the situation as presented.

I'm not suggesting that people don't know that mayday is an emergency call.

Wind Assisted Fffff-ing Idiot

OIC!

 

[winsbury]

what happens if the yachtsman concerned continues to call it a mayday even after being asked (after investigation/questionning) to downgrade the call to, say, a pan-pan or another status.

The skipper would be ignoring the CG instructions and using the VHF illegally - there are hefty penalties under law for these offences.

 

[NormanS]

I was taught that (inshore) one should wait to see if the coastguard responds initially so that they can take charge and co-ordinate otherwise 16 could be jammed with responses in a busy water such as the Solent. Only if there is no CG response in a reasonable time ( 4 mins ) should one respond and issue a Mayday Relay to the CG if, for example, the vessel in trouble is out of VHF range of the CG ( a handheld VHF for example might be able to reach you but not the coast. )

I think that advice has to be tempered with a bit of common sense. That may be alright in busy places like the Solent, but in more unfrequented places, where there are fewer "Assets", you may well be much closer than any other help. In these circumstances, I certainly wouldn't be waiting for four minutes, and wouldn't expect others to, either.

 

[winsbury]

I think that advice has to be tempered with a bit of common sense. That may be alright in busy places like the Solent, but in more unfrequented places, where there are fewer "Assets", you may well be much closer than any other help. In these circumstances, I certainly wouldn't be waiting for four minutes, and wouldn't expect others to, either.

Absolutely right - same goes for offshore when waiting for someone else to respond would usually be counter productive or indeed if you see someone clearly in trouble that doesn't have a VHF hence no alarm has been raised. Four minutes was the suggested time on the course and indeed is also quoted by Penzance Sailing club http://www.pzsc.org.uk/radio/content/relay.html where there is less traffic than the Solent. One of the arts of being a skipper is using exactly that kind of sound judgement and having a sense of whats around you.

 

[NUTMEG]

Not wishing to drift this thread but can I put another case. A few days before Christmas my son and I were bringing our Crabber around from the Crouch to the Blackwater and grounded on the Buxey.

Wind no more then a F3 offshore and a rising tide.

Time was about 16:00 ish and darkness falling. We got free, made a little progress and grounded again, and again.

I had miscalculated the tidal height and the draught of the new to us boat. These things happen I guess.

I did not consider that we were in any danger but felt like contacting Thames CG to advise them of our situation, remember we did not know the engine at the time (delivery trip).

I did not do so for fear of them calling the RNLI.

Everything sorted itself out and we arrived in Maldon as planned, just a bit late.

Is fear of causing a nuisance common, and if so, should it be?