The Ideal 36 footer?

Like others have said depends on budget and sailing preferences.

For me and under 100k I think I have it - an Elan 362
Fast but not furious. Fantastic practical wood interior - reminded me of previous Fulmar in terms of seagoing practicality and warmth.
Just taken me in comfort and sunshine to Tarbert at speed to get in before dark without motoring. - 2hr 15m from Garroch Head to Tarbert going gently as cold and solo, and 20 mins with jib furled to slow down whilst warmed up

Like others Arcona 37 Maxi 1100 or new Malo / HR if budget not an issue
Sadly Elan have abandoned this segment now
 
Agree with the comments particularly about the starlight. Just to shed a different light though - how about the Moody 36. Not very fashionable these days but spacious and built like a brick whatsit...
 
dunedin said:
Like others have said depends on budget and sailing preferences.

For me and under 100k I think I have it - an Elan 362
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Rare as hens teeth.... the only one I have seen was in rough nick, ex charter job... but that would be a good alternate to the Starlight...

A really good Sigma 362 would be another.... but again, getting a bit hard to find a good one...
 
If anyone knows where there is a Vancouver 36 for mid 5 figure thousands whisper to me quick. you will be lucky to get one for less than 100K after haggling
 
A couple of feet bigger but a very good buy, the Rival 38 featured here on Page 2 could be a good buy.

I like Peter Bret's Rival designs; strong, reasonably fast, sea worthy, sea kindly, enduring. They represent good value.
 
The reality is that there are many good boats in that size range, our 78 Moody 36 of course being the best. The reality is though that my best boat is almost certainly not your best boat. We chose ours after years of research and viewing.

This is one job where you need to apply the effort to first specify then find your ideal next boat.

Good luck
 
The OP dismissed boats like Vancouver and Rustler in the first post as they were mid five figure numbers and needing refit. He dismissed HR as it was twice the price.

Now, whether you agree with those figures or not, before any advice can be given surely we need to know the budget. Without that, this feels troll-like.

All of the boats mentioned above can be bought second hand for a very wide range of figures. For example, I have seen used Rustler 36's from 220k to 40k. As all of them start at roughly the same number new, and certainly the ones mentioned above depreciate at roughly the same rate, it is just a case of matching the boat age to the budget. There are no miracles out there.

On the other hand, if you are a Starlight lover and have a bigger budget, you should love this.
 
Indeed Solentboy there are no miracles out there. And Finbar, in his heart, does know what he wants:

Finbar said:
.......
To be more specific about my needs, I am thinking of something a bit more seaworthy, which will sail well in stronger winds, seakindly, while still being capable of being single handed easily. I am not always in a great hurry but do like to be certain of arriving. As the Higher Authority will only come if there is no wind, I am free to make my own choices. I don't need big volume below, and can do without frills.

If the initial price is not really a constraint, what represents the best sailing solution, taking lifetime costs into account? ...
While logic is important, I think I am also looking for that little something extra, so if you have found a little magic, let me know.
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So if speed is not the essence and easy motion in strong weather is a priority then it looks like an more traditional design (25-40k) plus a good refit budget.
Wonderful thought, to have the cash to fit out a good boat exactly as you would want it.
 
Troll? No but I suppose the sweetness and light could not go on forever. I do not dismiss any boats, and have had great fun following up the various links and proposals. Incidentally there are two Vancouver 36 boats on the web that I found, one in the UK for £112,500 and one for $75000 here http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...uiser-2274512/Ft.-Lauderdale/FL/United-States

I could probably stretch to a second hand Swede but am in no hurry to waste money. In my experience you need to spend at least 25% of the cost of an old boat, however well made, to bring it up to scratch, probably more if thinking blue water. Maybe less for the Swede if newer. Then there is the residual value to consider, so the lifetime cost may well be similar starting from different initial costs. I would like to get it right and get something I would enjoy. I am not neccessarily thinking of a cheap or bargain boat, but good quality at a fair price.

I am now loooking more into the following: Starlight 35, Rustler 36, Rival 36, HR 36, and maybe Malo 36 or Najad 361 although value for money is harder to identify with the last two.

Does the HR36 really sail to owindward like a garden shed? The September YM test has her making 4.9kn to windward in 10 kn apparent and tacking through 85 degrees. The HR Polar diagramme supports this and shows 6.5kn in a bit better than 45 degrees real at 18-20 kn, which is ok for cruising. Presumably with new sails and well set up. Anyone with hands on experience?
 
penfold said:
Slightly over your LOA point but this week I am mostly daydreaming about a Condor 37, made as the Tartan 37 in the US. I like S&S designs, and this is a good 'un. If wet, a She 36 will substitute.
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I must say that I've quite liked what I've read about Tartan boats but I've never come across one this side of the pond. I do note that there's a rather special Condor 37 for sale at Brighton and if it wasn't for that fact that I'd hate to waste the agent's time, I'd be very tempted to pop down and have a look.
http://www.ancasta.com/BoatInformation.aspx?make=Sparkman & Stephens&model=Condor 37&BoatId=23810
 
Finbar said:
Does the HR36 really sail to owindward like a garden shed? The September YM test has her making 4.9kn to windward in 10 kn apparent and tacking through 85 degrees. The HR Polar diagramme supports this and shows 6.5kn in a bit better than 45 degrees real at 18-20 kn, which is ok for cruising. Presumably with new sails and well set up. Anyone with hands on experience?
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It was my comment about garden shed and it was based on a couple of weekends on one. The worst thing about the boat was how readily waves would stop her. Heavy boat, lots of momentum, bluff bows and beating into a F6 meant that the boat would often be virtually stopped but the seas thrown up by the bow were impressive. I've also sailed on a Sadler 32 so have some idea of the difference you will feel. You will lose the ability to ghost along in very light airs.

There's an HR36 for charter in the Hamble. www.yacht-charter.co.uk If you really want to find out what the HR36 is like give it a go. They're a very professionally run company and I even think some other forumites have boats there. You can get FlyBE flights from Dublin to Southampton.
 
Finbar said:
Troll? No but I suppose the sweetness and light could not go on forever. I do not dismiss any boats, and have had great fun following up the various links and proposals. Incidentally there are two Vancouver 36 boats on the web that I found, one in the UK for £112,500 and one for $75000 here http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...uiser-2274512/Ft.-Lauderdale/FL/United-States

I could probably stretch to a second hand Swede but am in no hurry to waste money. In my experience you need to spend at least 25% of the cost of an old boat, however well made, to bring it up to scratch, probably more if thinking blue water. Maybe less for the Swede if newer. Then there is the residual value to consider, so the lifetime cost may well be similar starting from different initial costs. I would like to get it right and get something I would enjoy. I am not neccessarily thinking of a cheap or bargain boat, but good quality at a fair price.



I am now loooking more into the following: Starlight 35, Rustler 36, Rival 36, HR 36, and maybe Malo 36 or Najad 361 although value for money is harder to identify with the last two.

Does the HR36 really sail to owindward like a garden shed? The September YM test has her making 4.9kn to windward in 10 kn apparent and tacking through 85 degrees. The HR Polar diagramme supports this and shows 6.5kn in a bit better than 45 degrees real at 18-20 kn, which is ok for cruising. Presumably with new sails and well set up. Anyone with hands on experience?
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£112K is about right for a UK built V36 the US one is exactly that built to a different design either in the US or the far East can't say how they sail but would expect them to be good solid Robetr Harris performers. The UK V36 is the best of the vancouvers built by Northshore.
 
It will almost always be over looked by everyone, mainly because it is not mainstream, I'll no doubt be berated for suggesting it, but on the original YM boat test James Jermain said "We set off with two reefs and the genny rolled to No 4 jib size. After a reach in gusts of up to 35knts of wind and 8 knts on the clock, we took in a few more rolls to little more than storm jib size. This comparatively small reduction made all the difference. For the rest of the day, despite the wind rising to a steady 30 + knts with gusts of up to 45 knts, she remained remarkably well balanced."

The verdict at the end of the test said "We took away two lasting impressions from this test. Of these, the most important was that she really had been thought through as an offshore cruiser. This applied equally to accommodation, deck layout and performance."

Sounds pretty seaworthy to me.

The boat is 36 foot 2 inches long. Has bullet proof engineering and will be the only one in whichever marina you go to.

One for sale here:

http://www.allboats.com/en/6370402/etap-37s-2003.html
 
Finbar said:
Troll? No but I suppose the sweetness and light could not go on forever. I do not dismiss any boats, and have had great fun following up the various links and proposals. Incidentally there are two Vancouver 36 boats on the web that I found, one in the UK for £112,500 and one for $75000 here http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...uiser-2274512/Ft.-Lauderdale/FL/United-States

I could probably stretch to a second hand Swede but am in no hurry to waste money. In my experience you need to spend at least 25% of the cost of an old boat, however well made, to bring it up to scratch, probably more if thinking blue water. Maybe less for the Swede if newer. Then there is the residual value to consider, so the lifetime cost may well be similar starting from different initial costs. I would like to get it right and get something I would enjoy. I am not neccessarily thinking of a cheap or bargain boat, but good quality at a fair price.

I am now loooking more into the following: Starlight 35, Rustler 36, Rival 36, HR 36, and maybe Malo 36 or Najad 361 although value for money is harder to identify with the last two.

Does the HR36 really sail to owindward like a garden shed? The September YM test has her making 4.9kn to windward in 10 kn apparent and tacking through 85 degrees. The HR Polar diagramme supports this and shows 6.5kn in a bit better than 45 degrees real at 18-20 kn, which is ok for cruising. Presumably with new sails and well set up. Anyone with hands on experience?
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Understood. Perhaps this fits the bill then. Less than £60k.
 
HR 36

I have a 20y old HR 36 and the windward performance details in YM are approximately correct. In flat water I can make those angles and speeds as long as the sail set up is good, my sails are getting a bit old so in higher winds and poorer sea states the angles are poorer. Having said that,so much of windward performance is to do with helmsman and boat set up that I wonder about some of the data.......
I trialled quite a few boats before buying , fulmar, contessa 32, southerly, sadler 32, starlight. I found the windward performance of the HR to be average for that group.
It certainly goes to windward better than my garden shed.
 
Finbar said:
Does the HR36 really sail to owindward like a garden shed? The September YM test has her making 4.9kn to windward in 10 kn apparent and tacking through 85 degrees. The HR Polar diagramme supports this and shows 6.5kn in a bit better than 45 degrees real at 18-20 kn, which is ok for cruising. Presumably with new sails and well set up. Anyone with hands on experience?
Click to expand...

I reckon "garden shed" is a great overstatement. As I said earlier, the UK HR agent told me, when I was looking at buying one and with half an eye on a bit of casual racing, that the 34 was a much better sailing boat. The racing handicaps support this with the 36 at 976 and the 34 at 926 - so you could expect on average that the 34 would get somewhere 6% quicker than the 36. Not a huge difference but significant given that the 36 is a bigger boat.

The agent even described the model as more of a motor sailer but then what a beautiful interior and nice accommodation.
 
I don't want to get into a slanging match or insult anyone's pride and joy. There are a great deal of positives about the HR36, she's well-built, comfortable, steady in a blow, but she is not a witch to windward.

Are you really saying you would tack an HR36 when the windward mark is 85 degrees off the bow?

I think the agent has been laudably honest when talking to Bosun Higgs.

Anyway, I'll bow out of the discussion and leave you to it. Got a pub to go to.
 
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