The hardest thing in sailing I have ever had to do.

monkfish24

monkfish24

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Think of the most basic thing you do in sailing, probably tacking and gybing?

Well after years of carrying out these two actions quite successfully. I decide to enrol on a dinghy instructors course, begin "rya" way of tacking and gybing......

I can quite honestly say that trying to learn a new of something which has become second nature is the hardest thing I have had to do in quite while.

Driving a laser 2000 into a swell with gust up to 25kts..... easy, but tacking and gybing with new method of control....... mind....blown!
 
For a proper answer, I'd say gybing while on the plane in a good racing dinghy takes a lot of practice.

From what I've seen - and would love to try if I was fit enough - gybing a hydrofoil Moth is a whole order again more difficult.

The hardest thing I do regularly nowadays is trying to fit my boom cover, have tried several and they are all creations of the devil...
 
LittleSister said:
So what is this new-fangled way of tacking then? Where have we been going wrong all these years?
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LittleSister,

if you're answering my post, try gybing a Fireball, International 14 or Osprey etc on the plane during a race or trying to get somewhere, or trying to get round from that into a tacking or even vaguely upright position, then please report back, we'd love to hear your findings. :)
 
Totally contrary to what you would do racing...

Its the "easy beginners method" meaning that coaches earn money reteaching students the better method (Probably not dissimilar to lassoing buoys, there are better ways that are not as easy we will teach you those later).

Lets see if I can remember....

Tacking aft main sheet aft:
Switch tiller from beside you aft to infront of you,
Swap hands main sheet in aft hand,
Push tiller away, meet the boom in the middle (remember to duck head),
Sit on high side and start sailing,

Just to warn you will fail your course if you do not do it correctly every time. Including on a breezy day the examiner can sit and watch and say Jybe, then Jybe, then, Jybe till after you 5 or 6th Jybe in quick succession you do not follow "the method". Which is frustrating as 6 weeks earlier you had been on a racing coaching weekend as student and told you dd not Jybe there method either!
 
onesea said:
Totally contrary to what you would do racing...

Its the "easy beginners method" meaning that coaches earn money reteaching students the better method (Probably not dissimilar to lassoing buoys, there are better ways that are not as easy we will teach you those later).

Lets see if I can remember....

Tacking aft main sheet aft:
Switch tiller from beside you aft to infront of you,
Swap hands main sheet in aft hand,
Push tiller away, meet the boom in the middle (remember to duck head),
Sit on high side and start sailing,

Just to warn you will fail your course if you do not do it correctly every time. Including on a breezy day the examiner can sit and watch and say Jybe, then Jybe, then, Jybe till after you 5 or 6th Jybe in quick succession you do not follow "the method". Which is frustrating as 6 weeks earlier you had been on a racing coaching weekend as student and told you dd not Jybe there method either!
Click to expand...

Lol that's the nonsense they tried to teach me with all the hand swapping and sheet in the correct hand. I just laughed and did what worked. I didn't fail the course though since it's only an attendance certificate at that level of sailing :D
 
The rya method is as you say, all about swapping hands and at one point for a centre mainsheet, the tiller extension is behind your back and you have to swap the tiller and mainsheet over. It.s not easy in a blow to learn again.
 
lustyd said:
Lol that's the nonsense they tried to teach me with all the hand swapping and sheet in the correct hand. I just laughed and did what worked. I didn't fail the course though since it's only an attendance certificate at that level of sailing :D
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When I taught I was not to strict about how people did it as long as they where happy and it worked.

I might not be pro RYA but when I did my RYA Instructors cert it was not that much of a giveaway, although things may have changed it was nearly 25 years ago...
 
I always found a Fireball very easy to gybe in strong wind. It's so narrow, all you do is pivot on the balls of your feet (as the driver) and you're on the new side! IMHO the two most important rules are 1) go into the gybe with as much boat speed as possible, this reduces the load on the rig and makes the gybe "slower". 2) as soon as the boom comes over, give a counter steer, as if you are trying to put the boat back into the gybe again. This stops the turn dead after the gybe and ensures that the boat comes out on a run...it's when you come out, loaded up, on a reach, that things get damp!

Gybing an 18 was always a laugh. I was the driver...we'd set up and the sheet hand would give me the mainsheet. He'd then go into the boat (I'd bear away to compensate for the loss in righting moment) and pick up the new kite sheet and pull the slack out. We'd go into the gybe, the bowman would basically run through as fast as possible and hit the new wire, the sheet hand would gybe the kite and hand him the new, loaded up kite sheet, and in the meantime with my two hands I'd unhook, run across 16' beam of boat, dropping the old tiller extension on the way in, dropping the mainsheet in the middle, picking up the new tiller, and the mainsheet in my new hand on the way through, get on the rack, get on the trapeze and get legs crossed/locked in, whilst performing a well timed flick of the mainsheet to pop the battens whilst trying the keep the mast pointing upwards throughout the manoeuvre, and waiting for the call from the bowman that he was "breathing" the kite after the gybe and the whole thing was about to take off like a scalded cat. Still, you get used to it!

Seajet's point about a Moth is a good one. To pull off a foiling gybe you need to swap the tiller onto the new side, bear away a bit, get into the middle of the boat and then onto the new tramp...whilst actually heeling the boat into the gybe (not away from the gybe like every other boat!) At this point you are under the boom. Then you steer a bit more until the boom goes over, followed by a quick head up to keep the boat on the foils, followed by swapping tiller and mainsheet and settling down. By Novemeber I'd still not got it...or even come close...and I've now given up until the water warms up a bit, and am "low rider" gybing in the meantime. In the spring I will pick my day, go out sailing and not come back until I've cracked it.

Might need nav lights...
 
onesea said:
Just to warn you will fail your course if you do not do it correctly every time. Including on a breezy day the examiner can sit and watch and say Jybe, then Jybe, then, Jybe till after you 5 or 6th Jybe in quick succession you do not follow "the method". Which is frustrating as 6 weeks earlier you had been on a racing coaching weekend as student and told you dd not Jybe there method either!
Click to expand...
Having watched different Outdoor Activities being taught, including dinghy sailing, at an Outdoor Ed centre I can see that the importance of the Instructor is paramount.
In their own mind that is.
Never seen so much self importance from (usually) hardly experienced people before. People who did the basic qualification, training as instructors within a year. An industry within itself.
 
Lakesailor said:
Having watched different Outdoor Activities being taught, including dinghy sailing, at an Outdoor Ed centre I can see that the importance of the Instructor is paramount.
In their own mind that is.
Never seen so much self importance from (usually) hardly experienced people before. People who did the basic qualification, training as instructors within a year. An industry within itself.
Click to expand...

Too true, and ' fast track yachtmasters ' are a joke; indeed an industry churning them out, but I wouldn't trust one with a pencil sharpener let alone a boat.
 
I'm a dinghy instructor and taught one course only. I got a reprimand from an RYA inspector as it was a hot sunny day and I was wearing my bouyancy aid just thrown over my shoulders, and not actually zipped up whilst I was talking through a manoeuvre. Apparently this was a massive no-no and created completely the wrong impression and was dangerous.

I did point out that at the time I was sat at a table on the club patio eating lunch, and nowhere near any boats or water, and that both mine and my students gear would be put on properly before we went sailing again, and a bouyance aid thrown over shoulders was less likely to get picked up in error, or for that matter damaged on a gravel surface. I also pointed out that if students were required to wear life jackets in case they drowned in their own cup of tea at lunch, then maybe just maybe dinghy instructing wasn't for me...
 
Seajet said:
Too true, and ' fast track yachtmasters ' are a joke; indeed an industry churning them out, but I wouldn't trust one with a pencil sharpener let alone a boat.
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Hiya Seajet, bit of a sweeper that one! Wondering how many you have met or sailed with?

Its always a controversial subject, but no yachtmaster candidate passes without being good enough and without the pre requisite 2500 miles, 50 days on board, 5 passages over 60 2 as skipper, vhf and first aid certs, yadda yadda. Plenty fail first time. Dont see it makes a difference if you got those miles in 4 months or 10 years, its still a threshold.

Where I do side with your views are the Cruising Instructor bit. Fastrackers are offered to spend yet more money to do the CI course. This is bonkers, they should go off and get (in my mind) lots more sailing in before teaching it. Deliveries, crew on big boats, etc.

Seen lots of fast trackers, some just passing, most average plus the odd star. Wouldnt condem the lot on the odd donut!

CS
 
capnsensible said:
Hiya Seajet, bit of a sweeper that one! Wondering how many you have met or sailed with?

Its always a controversial subject, but no yachtmaster candidate passes without being good enough and without the pre requisite 2500 miles, 50 days on board, 5 passages over 60 2 as skipper, vhf and first aid certs, yadda yadda. Plenty fail first time. Dont see it makes a difference if you got those miles in 4 months or 10 years, its still a threshold.

Where I do side with your views are the Cruising Instructor bit. Fastrackers are offered to spend yet more money to do the CI course. This is bonkers, they should go off and get (in my mind) lots more sailing in before teaching it. Deliveries, crew on big boats, etc.

Seen lots of fast trackers, some just passing, most average plus the odd star. Wouldnt condem the lot on the odd donut!

CS
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Have stated before that IMHO some of the RYA pre course requirements are a bit lite, designed before the fast track route was invented.

I can understand Seajets point of view, YES there is a threshold. In 90% of cases those gathering that experience in 10 years are going to be less likely to forget it after 4 months than those that gained it just 4 months.

That is the nature of learning, OK if they carry on sailing with that intensity after 12 months they will have considerable experience but how often does that happen?

Oh odd thing that I got my cruising instructors when I sat my yacht masters and held a valid dinghy SI, about the only bit of paper that I did not have to sit an exam for with the RYA.
 
Seajet said:
Too true, and ' fast track yachtmasters ' are a joke; indeed an industry churning them out, but I wouldn't trust one with a pencil sharpener let alone a boat.
Click to expand...

Some are bad, some are good. If they've passed the exam though then they are good enough to please an examiner. To my knowledge no zero to hero course has in house examinations so there is no rubber stamping on students basic capabilities during the tests.
 
Lakesailor said:
Having watched different Outdoor Activities being taught, including dinghy sailing, at an Outdoor Ed centre I can see that the importance of the Instructor is paramount.
In their own mind that is.
Never seen so much self importance from (usually) hardly experienced people before. People who did the basic qualification, training as instructors within a year. An industry within itself.
Click to expand...

About 17 years ago I did an RYA Senior Instructor Course at the age of 50, along with a dozen 18-25s. There was only one of the younger instructors on the course that could beat me when we did some short races, and I was then and still am a fairly unfit cruising/occasional race sailor. The level of actual sailing skill was pretty low, though they were whizzo at manoeuvring safety boats.

It was my first experience ever of the RYA dinghy system - they let me onto the course straight to SI as I'd been teaching both cruiser and dinghy sailing abroad for quite a few years.

In response to the OP, the RYA method for tacking/gybing does work if you teach it to beginners as a routine, though apart from demonstrating and teaching I often do things differently.
 
onesea said:
When I taught I was not to strict about how people did it as long as they where happy and it worked.

I might not be pro RYA but when I did my RYA Instructors cert it was not that much of a giveaway, although things may have changed it was nearly 25 years ago...
Click to expand...

Sorry didn't mean the instructor cert was an attendance certificate, I'm sure that's at least a little more challenging!
 
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