The Grapnel anchor...if everyone depises them, why are they sold by every chandlery?

I agree with Seajet on this - I carry one which I use mostly as an angel in crowded anchorages to reduce scope. I occasionally use it as a kedge if the holding is not suitable for my normal primary kedge (lightweight danforth). It would also serve as an emergency anchor if for any reason I had to cut the bitter end on my primary anchor and chain. I've also once used it as a marker (attached to a line and fender) when I dropped something valuable overboard when I had to abandon an anchorage at night when an unexpected storm blew up - went back the next morning and scuba'd to recover everything. It is quite a useful thing on a cruising boat - and they cost virtually nothing by yachting standards..


Seajet said:
Dan,

I don't despise the grapnel at all, just am aware of its' good and bad points.

I always carry one when cruising.

Being pointy - like a fisherman anchor - it would hopefully penetrate weed and give me a toe-hold on rock in an emergency situation, in a place I wouldn't normally anchor.

In peaceful times I keep it folded and use as an angel halfway down the main bower anchor warp to help keep the pull near horizontal and take the snatch out of waves.

I wouldn't rely on a grapnel under load for too long if I could help it as the flukes rely on a relatively weak hinge pin, but one way or another the grapnel is one of my favourite bits of kit, a friend in my armoury.
Click to expand...
 
For a dinghy anchor I would go for Danforth, then that is my general choice for anchors...

I was going to recommend one of these:
[URL="http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/400180173322?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0#"]http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/400180173322?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0#
[/URL]
Or similar on basis of price...

Then I found you could get one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5kg-Danforth-Style-anchor-dinghy-fishing-boat-yacht-boat-sail-/321082631992?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item4ac2042738
Cheaper...

Either would do the other big question in a dinghy is where are you going to stow it and which anchor will fit in that space....

To me I would not be spending to much on a dinghy anchor...
 
For christs' sake let's not get into another anchor argument; I happen to like Bruce's ( the anchor not in this case the actor ) but as a general purpose job for dinghies or a multii purpose Plan B kedge for yots, the folding grapnel is hard to beat.
 
It's not terribly important...though I'll reserve the right to curse whatever choice I make, if it drags, one windy night!

I'd like to employ the 35 year-old danforth I've used for every dinghy I've had...but it's very petite...probably 3lb...and the shank is very slightly bent...

...I can't remember ever giving it any hard task at sea, much more likely it was under a collapsed wardrobe full of crud in the garage one year. P'raps I can use it again if I shell out on some chain. And a grapnel, as a kedge!
 
I have a Grapnel Anchor for my boat.
Its the perfect one for my boat. It complies with Minimum Safety Equipment Requirements
It fits in a small rubber maid container along with all the rest of the required stuff I have no intention of ever actually using.
 
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dancrane said:
At last, could this be an anchor thread which doesn't divide opinion? (Fat chance...)

View attachment 30589

Heaven knows what the inventor of the grapnel had in mind...possibly it was a hook to help POWs escape over camp walls? But after years of interest in anchors, I've never come across anyone who favoured this design; it seems to be universally panned by everyone who has written anything about anchoring any boat...

...yet every chandlery still sells them. Are they just sold to newbies, as foldable lunch-hooks which won't puncture an inflatable tender?
Click to expand...

At the yacht club we have them on all our Safety Boat (RIBs) because they are the most suitable anchor for use on that type of boat.

I also carry one on my own boat (23 foot Virgo Voyager) because it stows easily within the limited stowage places that I have. I should add, as an additional anchor to the 'Better' anchor carried on the bow.
 
I have grapnels, inc a small one for my rigid tender - main use for that is when working on moorings, when I tow the grapnel on a short scope just to detect mooring chains.

I would never dream of using a grapnel as the normal bower on a cruiser.

What I do find it very good for though, is as a kedge on my cruiser;

A, in folded state it makes a very handy Angel halfway down the bower warp, this does work, I've used it as such in very strong katabatic winds at places like Studland.

B, being sharp and pointy it might well save the boat in an emergency situation, ie penetrating through weed to get a temporary toe-hold on rock, where one would not normally choose to anchor.
 
Wow an old thread.

Thanks for the link, although I think it has much more relevance to small boats rather than our sized vessels (ignoring the tender).

From the perspective of anchor choice, the best thing we can do is choose a design that will set rapidly and does not drag. Those aims are in our best interest as well as the environment's, although the setting distance is not measured in anchor tests so it gets little exposure.

This Delta was doing what we want to avoid, namely creating a "flower arrangement":

image.jpg1_zpsktqqi72q.jpg
 
noelex said:
Thanks for the link, although I think it has much more relevance to small boats rather than our sized vessels (ignoring the tender).

From the perspective of anchor choice, the best thing we can do is choose a design that will set rapidly and does not drag. Those aims are in our best interest as well as the environment's, although the setting distance is not measured in anchor tests so it gets little exposure.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The boat used in the study was "less than 5.5m", but that's something like what I believe the OP has or had. Things might well be different with larger/heavier boats. In this study, weighing anchor seemed to be the most destructive bit (especially with the grapnel).
 
noelex,

I don't fancy the look of that Delta !

I suppose all one can say is that if anchoring in daylight it looks shallow enough to be able to see what is happening ?

A nightmare at night where shallow & deep depthsounder alarms + GPS drift alarms might be one's best hope, apart from a strong crew with a hand bearing compass on anchor watch...a horrid situation !
 
Seajet said:
noelex,

I don't fancy the look of that Delta !
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. An anchor like this has little hope of developing any significant grip.

It is much more common than people realise. Most of the weed will drop off the anchor as it is raised to surface, particularly with a convex plough anchor. The skipper is therefore unaware of the problem, or at least the extent of the problem when the anchor is sitting on the seabed.

Here is another example. Most of this weed clump is not growing, but has been dragged along by the anchor. Once again this is a Delta:

imagejpg1_zpsc2fc0b76.jpg
 
Noelex,

your photo's would be usefully incorporated into a course such as ' Yachtmaster Offshore '; if the images don't keep boat owners awake all night, at anchor or ashore in bed, they ought to !
 
Seajet said:
Noelex,

your photo's would be usefully incorporated into a course such as ' Yachtmaster Offshore
Click to expand...

Thanks. I am all for anything that improves anchoring. One day I might be downwind :).

It is a bit off topic, but I think understanding what the anchor is doing on the seabed is important. This anchor I saw just recently shows what happens if you drop an anchor and pile chain on top in light wind:

image.jpg3_zpsbvfj6g5k.jpg
 
In defence of the grapnel anchor....

I must admit I often wondered what those small foldable bright silver grapnel anchors were for - they seemed neither one thing or another. There was one interesting feature about them - they seemed remarkably cheap in the chandlers because most functionally useful gear seemed to cost multiples of £100.

I'm sure many people know this but grapnel anchors made by the local blacksmith (27" long, 17" wide and weighing about 5kg, and £60) are indespensable for anyone who owns a 20-22" Orkney Pilothouse fishing boat and wants to fish over a reef like the one a few miles off Littlehampton - Kingsmere or some such.

By attaching the chain to a circular built in ring at the bottom and holding the chain in place to the top cleat with a cable tie, should your £60 look like staying on the bottom a strong yank will break the cable tie and move the attachment point to the bottom and like magic the thing frees itself. Over three years I only ever lost one, and that was because an extremely unexpected change in weather conditions meant an emergency full throttle return to port.

Since this will probably be my only small contribution to the site, I feel it would be rude to go without a fisherman's tale.

I'd always wanted my own small boat and an unexpected windfall suddenly meant it was possible. In my minds eye I imagined setting out at about 4am from Surrey, 80 min drive down to the world's most expensive 22 feet of mooring, and spending quality me time relaxing.

The idea my wife would want to join me never crossed my mind... Anyone who has ever gone fishing with someone who has never fished before knows that effectively fishing for yourself is off because you'll spent the entire day sorting out tangled gear, putting on hook after hook after hook, and constantly baiting the wretched things.

After a couple of hours of this it all got too much. Noticing her small bream hook had almost zero bait and a 90 degree right angle bend down in the middle, meaning there was no possible way to it could even hook the bottom, let alone a fish, I assured her it would be fine. Also ten minutes later she says she's stuck on the bottom again, what should she do? Staying calm, I didn't suggest the obvious reason - diving down 25 feet and unhooking from the bottom - I said I'd be with her in just a minute. Suddenly she says that it feels like the bottom is moving - how can that happen? By this time her rod is virtually bent double, and too my absolute horror 5 mins later up comes a thornback ray well into double figures. I think it was either just over 12lbs or just under 14lbs.

Great. I am so pleased for her. She has caught our first fish. Not only that, whilst I'm hoping for bream of 2-3lbs at the absolute best, she's caught this bloody massive ray. Somewhere in the reef there must have been a single four square feet of sand, home to this bloody fish which had no right to be on the reef. This remained the boat's biggest fish for longer than I'm prepared to say.

I finally out fished her one night when we'd decided to stay out all night and my youngest son was with us. It's a very safe place to fish because should some serious commercial vessel of significant tonnage appear, it will always give the reef a wide birth.

One of the truly magical things about being some distance offshore on a clear night is seeing the whole of the milky way ten times brighter than with the light pollution back on terra firma, any planet in the hemisphere at the time and just staring at it.

Anyway, at 1.00am I realise not only have I got a significant something on the line, it's seriously big. Fortunately, I have a massive net but after 10 mins of getting this monster to the surface, I realise that I won't be able to offer helpful advice on how to get it in the net because I can't see that part of the water, only my wife can.

I make a superhuman effort to sound calm as if this is a simple task - just scoop the thing in from below in a smooth controlled manner.

A minute passes. She is waving the bloody net all over the place. Calm she is not. Another minute passes. What I feel like saying is "Just what the f**k are you doing? Just stick the thing in the bloody net. I'll pull it aboard."

What I actually say is "Are you having a problem with the net?" "What seems to be the problem"? Now my wife may be small but nothing phases her. Nothing. Yet when she replies she sounds genuinely terrified. "I'm trying to get it in the net but the only bit that will go in is the head"

I drop my gear and race to the other side of the boat, just as by pure fluke this massive conger eel wraps itself in a way that for a split second most of it is coiled in the net. I forgot to say that for someone so small, she's also frighteningly strong. She does what she thinks is the thing to do - drags the thing aboard.

My son wakes up and appears at the cabin door to see what all the fuss is about. He can't stop laughing as a massively pissed off conger as thick as a tree trunk and longer than seems natural chases his parents round the deck. The second the thing gets aboard there is a change in plan. How do we get it back in the water and both of us keep all our limbs. The idea of weighing it is clearly absurd, not least because the scales don't go over 50lbs and frankly I don't think the eel was particularly interested in it's personal BMI at the time. Finally we find enough materials to build a barricade. The boat is divided 50/50, with the eel at the back, us at the front. Stalemate. Seconds later it contorts it's body and with a shove from both of us slides into the the sea with a considerable amount of dignity. Nothing is said for sometime while every can of gin and tonic we can find is knocked back.
 
Roger Sharp said:
In defence of the grapnel anchor....

I must admit I often wondered what those small foldable bright silver grapnel anchors were for - they seemed neither one thing or another. There was one interesting feature about them - they seemed remarkably cheap in the chandlers because most functionally useful gear seemed to cost multiples of £100.

I'm sure many people know this but grapnel anchors made by the local blacksmith (27" long, 17" wide and weighing about 5kg, and £60) are indespensable for anyone who owns a 20-22" Orkney Pilothouse fishing boat and wants to fish over a reef like the one a few miles off Littlehampton - Kingsmere or some such.

By attaching the chain to a circular built in ring at the bottom and holding the chain in place to the top cleat with a cable tie, should your £60 look like staying on the bottom a strong yank will break the cable tie and move the attachment point to the bottom and like magic the thing frees itself. Over three years I only ever lost one, and that was because an extremely unexpected change in weather conditions meant an emergency full throttle return to port.

Since this will probably be my only small contribution to the site, I feel it would be rude to go without a fisherman's tale.

I'd always wanted my own small boat and an unexpected windfall suddenly meant it was possible. In my minds eye I imagined setting out at about 4am from Surrey, 80 min drive down to the world's most expensive 22 feet of mooring, and spending quality me time relaxing.

The idea my wife would want to join me never crossed my mind... Anyone who has ever gone fishing with someone who has never fished before knows that effectively fishing for yourself is off because you'll spent the entire day sorting out tangled gear, putting on hook after hook after hook, and constantly baiting the wretched things.

After a couple of hours of this it all got too much. Noticing her small bream hook had almost zero bait and a 90 degree right angle bend down in the middle, meaning there was no possible way to it could even hook the bottom, let alone a fish, I assured her it would be fine. Also ten minutes later she says she's stuck on the bottom again, what should she do? Staying calm, I didn't suggest the obvious reason - diving down 25 feet and unhooking from the bottom - I said I'd be with her in just a minute. Suddenly she says that it feels like the bottom is moving - how can that happen? By this time her rod is virtually bent double, and too my absolute horror 5 mins later up comes a thornback ray well into double figures. I think it was either just over 12lbs or just under 14lbs.

Great. I am so pleased for her. She has caught our first fish. Not only that, whilst I'm hoping for bream of 2-3lbs at the absolute best, she's caught this bloody massive ray. Somewhere in the reef there must have been a single four square feet of sand, home to this bloody fish which had no right to be on the reef. This remained the boat's biggest fish for longer than I'm prepared to say.

I finally out fished her one night when we'd decided to stay out all night and my youngest son was with us. It's a very safe place to fish because should some serious commercial vessel of significant tonnage appear, it will always give the reef a wide birth.

One of the truly magical things about being some distance offshore on a clear night is seeing the whole of the milky way ten times brighter than with the light pollution back on terra firma, any planet in the hemisphere at the time and just staring at it.

Anyway, at 1.00am I realise not only have I got a significant something on the line, it's seriously big. Fortunately, I have a massive net but after 10 mins of getting this monster to the surface, I realise that I won't be able to offer helpful advice on how to get it in the net because I can't see that part of the water, only my wife can.

I make a superhuman effort to sound calm as if this is a simple task - just scoop the thing in from below in a smooth controlled manner.

A minute passes. She is waving the bloody net all over the place. Calm she is not. Another minute passes. What I feel like saying is "Just what the f**k are you doing? Just stick the thing in the bloody net. I'll pull it aboard."

What I actually say is "Are you having a problem with the net?" "What seems to be the problem"? Now my wife may be small but nothing phases her. Nothing. Yet when she replies she sounds genuinely terrified. "I'm trying to get it in the net but the only bit that will go in is the head"

I drop my gear and race to the other side of the boat, just as by pure fluke this massive conger eel wraps itself in a way that for a split second most of it is coiled in the net. I forgot to say that for someone so small, she's also frighteningly strong. She does what she thinks is the thing to do - drags the thing aboard.

My son wakes up and appears at the cabin door to see what all the fuss is about. He can't stop laughing as a massively pissed off conger as thick as a tree trunk and longer than seems natural chases his parents round the deck. The second the thing gets aboard there is a change in plan. How do we get it back in the water and both of us keep all our limbs. The idea of weighing it is clearly absurd, not least because the scales don't go over 50lbs and frankly I don't think the eel was particularly interested in it's personal BMI at the time. Finally we find enough materials to build a barricade. The boat is divided 50/50, with the eel at the back, us at the front. Stalemate. Seconds later it contorts it's body and with a shove from both of us slides into the the sea with a considerable amount of dignity. Nothing is said for sometime while every can of gin and tonic we can find is knocked back.
Click to expand...
Brilliant. Lol. Well told ☺
 
Why don't more people resurrect old boring threads and convert them into humour and literature..

Roger, please don't feel this need be your only contribution - we need you. :)

Jonathan

Edit - if you are ever in Sydney, do let us know. We will take your wife fishing and you can score a single ticket to cross The Harbour Bridge. :)
 
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