The end of owner maintenance ...

and another howler from the draft..

2.8.4 Checking of engine oil levels and oil filters at periodic intervals to ensure the continued effectiveness of the engines.
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Checking for oil leaks from the filter is not the same as checking the filter.
Has anyone ever "checked" an oil filter?
How do you "check" an oil filter?
How many boats carry an oil flow meter to carry out a "check" ...

As Bru says, this is not a well written document.
 
Tomahawk -
I remember it well. One example was a charter boat from Falmouth that lost it's keel near the Isles of Scilly, but the charter crew didn't realise it; they continued to sail and made no reference on return to Falmouth.
After a subsequent charter, a "stability problem" was reported and the missing keel was later found on the rocks where it came off.
Says a lot for that boat's builder to allow it to sail for several weeks without tipping over!
 
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True, but oil sampling and metallic content analysis by a suitably equipped analysis lab gives you a far better understanding of the engines condition than looking for lumps of metal in the filter..

And the filter is somewhat unserviceable (buggered) after being cut open so it's not a maintenance check per say.
 
Tomahawk said:
True, but oil sampling and metallic content analysis by a suitably equipped analysis lab gives you a far better understanding of the engines condition than looking for lumps of metal in the filter..

And the filter is somewhat unserviceable (buggered) after being cut open so it's not a maintenance check per say.
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All very true, but I just answered the question :)
 
Minn said:
You got it.

I suggest that the professionals keep out of this.
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Good advice. Pros know what MGN's are, will have carefully read the MCA response to those who wrote to them and seen, clearly, that there is no impact at all on the leisure boat owner. Thats what Im doing.

:encouragement:
 
CLB said:
I would say far from it. You seem like a dog with a bone on this subject. I am starting to suspect there is more to your involvement on this thread.
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Nah, think of pouring oil on troubled waters.

Im impressed though that Im now the subject of another conspiracy theory! ;)
 
We're getting another message out to members of my club tomorrow morning, including some of the responses from here as a guide to creating their own. We'll have another little nag after racing on Wednesday.

One interesting point has been raised. Anyone know what the law is on the notice period and duration of consultations involving government departments? There's a suggestion that rules may have been broken.
 
I wrote to them last week making that very point..
So far by way of answer .... nada.. zilch..

Rats?
Ir cockup? However when one reads the actual text,,,

3.5.4 If replacing an internal engine, that the new engine uses the same engine support mounts and through hull fittings for any piping.

It is not my imagination,,, there is a very significant word missing after the first comma! I have suggested it should be "ensure" but alternatives might include "pretend?"
 
NormanS said:
So all this ballyhoo is because one carelessly maintained commercial yacht's keel fell off. Thank you professionals.
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Robert Wilson said:
Tomahawk -
I remember it well. One example was a charter boat from Falmouth that lost it's keel near the Isles of Scilly, but the charter crew didn't realise it; they continued to sail and made no reference on return to Falmouth.
After a subsequent charter, a "stability problem" was reported and the missing keel was later found on the rocks where it came off.
Says a lot for that boat's builder to allow it to sail for several weeks without tipping over!
Click to expand...

I fear you are getting things muddled. Other than a cluster of hotted-up Bavarias which lost keels some long time ago, the only two production yachts that I can remember losing keels were Cheeki Rafiki and Polbream. Cheeky Rafiki was the Beneteau that lost its keel (and its crew) mid Atlantic, probably due to badly repaired previous grounding damage. Polbream was a Jeanneau that left its keel behind in the Scillies after its charter crew struck the rocks. Two very different causes.
Peter
 
Tomahawk said:
I wrote to them last week making that very point..
So far by way of answer .... nada.. zilch..

Rats?
Ir cockup? However when one reads the actual text,,,

3.5.4 If replacing an internal engine, that the new engine uses the same engine support mounts and through hull fittings for any piping.

It is not my imagination,,, there is a very significant word missing after the first comma! I have suggested it should be "ensure" but alternatives might include "pretend?"
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Not 'pretend' but 'tell the MCA'.

I'd say that it's really just another badly worded section, but the truth is that it's nearly all bad. In fact I complimented them on the Lifesaving Equipment section, and said that it was a pity that the same author hadn't written the Groundings section.
 
Resolution said:
I fear you are getting things muddled. Other than a cluster of hotted-up Bavarias which lost keels some long time ago, the only two production yachts that I can remember losing keels were Cheeki Rafiki and Polbream. Cheeky Rafiki was the Beneteau that lost its keel (and its crew) mid Atlantic, probably due to badly repaired previous grounding damage. Polbream was a Jeanneau that left its keel behind in the Scillies after its charter crew struck the rocks. Two very different causes.
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
Grey cells not at their best it seems! I must have read Tomahawk's post incorrectly.
It still makes a good account to sail for a few weeks without a keel!

I hope you're having good sailing, wherever you are.
Robert
 
Resolution said:
I fear you are getting things muddled. Other than a cluster of hotted-up Bavarias which lost keels some long time ago, the only two production yachts that I can remember losing keels were Cheeki Rafiki and Polbream. Cheeky Rafiki was the Beneteau that lost its keel (and its crew) mid Atlantic, probably due to badly repaired previous grounding damage. Polbream was a Jeanneau that left its keel behind in the Scillies after its charter crew struck the rocks. Two very different causes.
Peter
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Don't forget
Hooligan V - Max fun 35
Tyger of London - Comar 45

More here:-
https://www.yachtingworld.com/news/keel-failure-shocking-facts-60006
 
Regarding Hooligan V, the MAIB investigation found keel failure was the result of inadequate construction when the keel was first fabricated. The subsequent addition of extra ballast exacerbated an already bad situation. So this draft MGN does not apply.

(separately, I knew the owners wife Gill. She taught me to sail at Cheshunt).
 
Daydream believer said:
Oyster 85 (well it was big & expensive if it was not 85?)- they produced several of the same boat so that is a " production" yacht.
Not "Mass" probably more "Mess" production
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Ah yes. How could I have forgotten them? A friend had one on order when, in the vernacular, the bottom dropped out of the market.
For those of us not quite able to afford a bespoke tailored 90 footer, the odds on our mass-produced keels falling off are still very small. Lots of other things to worry about.
 
Tomahawk said:
Regarding Hooligan V, the MAIB investigation found keel failure was the result of inadequate construction when the keel was first fabricated. The subsequent addition of extra ballast exacerbated an already bad situation. So this draft MGN does not apply.

(separately, I knew the owners wife Gill. She taught me to sail at Cheshunt).
Click to expand...

Same root cause with Tyger of London.

However, in Hooligan's case I recall that there was also evidence at its last haul-out that all was not well with the keel-hull joint. The final report for Tyger of London has not yet been published.
 
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