The end of owner maintenance ...

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rszemeti

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If you have not seen this consultation already, I suggest you read the documents and respond.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-yacht-and-powerboat-safety-at-sea

Effectively, many of the clauses woudl see the end of owner maintenance on pleasure craft.

eg:

Unless specifically trained, experienced and/or qualified to do so, repairs should not be carried out by the owner,managing agent or skipper.
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and ...

All of this makes a technical inspection of a rig and its rigging a job for an experiencedmarine professional only.
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etc etc ..
 
perhaps the person drafting the regs should read these forums as to the areas of maintenance and how it's carried out. silly sods. trying to regulate a 40year old modified, held to gether with gaffer tape and epoxy 32ft cruising yacht is going to be interesting. Anyway reading this stuff is what the RYA is paid to do luckily :)

also misses the point that doing maintenance and repairs is the key way to get to know the boat and increases safety at sea where the knowleageable owner will then have the tools and info to repair said part when it goes ping mid passage. In fact I'd say it was a hugely important aspect of being a competent skipper - unless of course they are going to put haul out facilities mid channel, biscay, atlantic etc
 
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Is this consultation a precursor to legislation or is it merely intended as a base for issuing guidelines for what is considered to be "good practice" (or what we would call 'good seamanship')?
It seems to me to be the latter. I believe that your country does not even have the equivalent of a 'nautical license' for leisure craft (I might be wrong) and so legislation would appear to be highly unlikely.
 
Common sense does not count and civil servants just follow orders any laws stopping people working on their boats should be vigorously condemned through the RYA.In Spain you have to pay for a survey every five years,license to print money and further make boating an elitist pastime.
 
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From the intro to the consultation..
" The main reason for the intervention is to reinforce to owners, managing agents and skippers what is good practice in terms of safety when going out to sea. This is to reduce the risk of any accidents occurring as a result of not following the most acceptable standards of safety required. Another reason for the intervention is to ensure that guidance on safety is applied equally to those who fall within a regulatory framework and to those that fall outside it. This will ensure that as many stakeholders as possible are aware of what practices they need to put in place to meet the acceptable level of safety. The guidance contained within this collection of MGNs is not looking to amend or change the text of the applicable regulations, but rather provide further detail on the intent of the regulation."

That doesn't sound too ominous.
 
It would be sad if we were not allowed to carry out repairs and modifications to our boats because I get a lot of pleasure from it as well as saving myself a great deal of money. However, I am always amazed at how tolerant some boatyards are of amateurs carrying out work that could not only endanger themselves but others. Dry grinding off antifoul is one example, with the toxic dust flying everywhere
 
Not deleted by Old harry, but never mind....

It's not entirely clear to what extent these new guidelines apply to leisure boats - will it extend to my little sailing dinghy for example?

The papers refer to a 'Good practice' code for leisure boats, which means the whole thing is advisory. But advisory codes have a bad habit of becoming incorporated in legislation. In any case, try justifying not having followed the guidelines to your insurers after an incident!

Also, HMs could easily incorporate guidelines in to local harbour rules. 'All boats using the harbour must be maintained in line with MCZ Guidelines'

But yes, owner maintenance is fundamental to sea safety: If you maintain your own boat and something goes wrong then you have a better chance of getting yourself out of trouble, or even identifying it before it develops in to a serious problem.

But of course there are a lot of novices operating/owning boats of all states of repair and seaworthiness: I shudder nowadays at some of the risks I took 60 years ago with my first boats. A member of my YC was recently complaining about the state of a boat he had bought. One of the worst issues was that the sheet winches had been glued in place! I remember walking away from viewing a boat when the owner proudly showed me the 'bathroom wallpaper' he had used to make it look good!

But there does seem to me too much of an emphasis on the use of professionals to check and repair boats in the guidelines as they stand. We all know the high standards a knowledgeable skilled amateur can acheive. Equally mos of us who have been around for many years know the appalling botches that can be made in the name of 'maintenance'!
 
Whilst you are correct that these are not mandatory, if something was to happen, effectively they are, because if somethign goes wrong, you end up standing in front of a Jury, facing their lawyer armed with these notes, explaining that because you had done all your own maintenance over the winter that "the owner failed to comply with accepted best practice"

Say your engine breaks down coming in on a rough night, your boat is lost on rocks and your insurance company declines to pay because you have not followed accepted good practice and have done all the maintenance yourself for the last 30 years, instead of using a Marine Professional.

Or the rig comes down in a storm, even though inspected yearly and 7 years old, the instructions from the original builder state it shoudl be replaced every 5 years (the rig document here makes replacement in line with the builders instructions mandatory).

Etc etc etc ... while the general advice on the quality and integrity of repairs is good and sensible, the requirement that only a Marine Professional should carry out any work or inspection is onerous.

At the very least they should contain the phrase "Marine Professional or other Competent Person" at least then you are able to argue in front of a jury that you were competent to complete the task.
 
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And ... if you are bothered, right in response to the address given!

I think it is shocking that the RYA has been silent on this issue, no doubt the marine industry is rubbing it's hands in glee!
 
MM5AHO said:
From the intro to the consultation..
"The guidance contained within this collection of MGNs is not looking to amend or change the text of the applicable regulations, but rather provide further detail on the intent of the regulation."

That doesn't sound too ominous.
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That basically means that the agency wants to make it clear that under the existing regulations, you should not be working on your own boat!
 
These documents frequently mention the Recreational Craft Regulations 2017, and also under maintenance mention referring to the manufacturer's maintenance schedule, and if in doubt I should contact the manufacturer. I have a 1978 Moody 30 - how exactly do I contact the manufacturer? I doubt the boat came with much of a maintenance schedule anyway. Having been manufactured before 16 June 1998 it does not need to conform to the RCD.
 
I wonder what would qualify a Marine Professional? Would such a person need something similar to what gas people have in CORGI but for boats and not gas? I can imagine a whole industry forming out of implementing Marine Professionals.
 
Poignard said:
It would be sad if we were not allowed to carry out repairs and modifications to our boats because I get a lot of pleasure from it as well as saving myself a great deal of money. However, I am always amazed at how tolerant some boatyards are of amateurs carrying out work that could not only endanger themselves but others. Dry grinding off antifoul is one example, with the toxic dust flying everywhere
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Except all over southern Europe the yards dry grind it off themselves too.
 
This is a major threat to our sport/pastime.

Where it refers to 'experienced marine professionals' many of us here have been ripped off by those posing as such. This really is the start of enforced professional maintenance for all, irrespective of whether you are more competent than the so called professional.

Out of interest, is there a formal qualification for a rigger? Certainly one can be trained and skilled/experienced, but qualified? Who provides the qualifications and under whose authority?

Please do read and respond to the email address in a professional manner. Many of us rely on experienced marine professions but many of us are also competent to maintain our own boats.

Get writing or lose our freedom and sport. Seriously.
 
In almost the first few words of the CONSULTATION document it says one of the responses they are looking for is if their ideas are " Realistic to carry out in practice "

So, just a consultation document and they have asked recipricants to answer the above question.

So, perhaps a trifle early to start castigating the RYA for being slow

And, also perhaps not time to worry about it becoming enshrined legislation.

They cant get rid of patently unsafe 'slumboats' on the Thames-what chance policeing DIY on the thousands of leisure boats in use in the UK.

If we had a US style para military high personel and vessels Coastguard there might be a chance of enforcement, but as it stands the resources are not in place.
 
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Don't rely on there being any consistency or common sense from the MCA. I sold a boat with MCA cert, which has to be renewed at point of sale. The boat had only done a sea trial for an hour and 26 hour delivery trip, took three weeks to get through the cert. I argued a point with one inspector, in the end he said in exasperation "Look, we're in the dark as badly as you are" and I hear he quit the job over it.
 
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