The difference between safety and emergency

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Babylon

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Some recent thread (I forget which) mentioned the fact that 'safety' equipment should really be understood as 'emergency' equipment, and that this is Tom Cunliffe's preferred terminology.

Makes enormous sense to me, as it puts the onus of 'safety' back onto good seamanship, personal responsibility and respect for the power of the elements, as well as being a great antidote to the commercial pressure to buy every single bit of safety-oriented product on the market (ie 'safety sells').

BUT this got me thinking: there are really two categories of equipment on board, some which is for use only in emergencies, others which are in fact safety-oriented and which are used a lot of the time when just sailing. Examples (not a comprehensive list):

Emergency kit includes lifejacket (not harness as such), MOB gear, liferaft, flares, EPIRB, PLB, fire-extinguishers, bolt-croppers, etc.

Safety kit includes harness (whether or not lifejacket integral), lifelines, jackstays, strong-points, NAVTEX, safe gas installation, carbon-monoxide detector, radar reflector, etc.

Does this make sense? What do others think?
 
I'd not thought of kit falling into categories such as those, before.

From my own specialist work area, I'd suggest

PREVENTION of an event or accident e.g jackstays, Navtex, detectors, sunglasses (even), Ist Aid training courses, RYA or other certifs etc

and

RESPONSE to an event or accident e.g. liferaft, dan buoy, fire extinguishers, first aid kit,

The words are not so "sexy" as SAFETY and EMERGENCY, but the categorisation is IMHO, clearer and easier to understand.
 
I am not saying that I take my work onto the boat, but it was a suggestion to differentiate between kit that one should have to prevent something going wrong, and kit that one needs when the bung has come out of the impeller housing.

I'm sure you have been to seminars where someone drones on about "if you can't measure, you can't manage" in support of flogging some form of quantitative control process, well now you have got me thinking: maybe we do need systems in managing boats. Maybe even already we do use systems, albeit intuitively or unconsciously.

Think perhaps of the times that people have posted about check lists, or lessons learned ?

I bet that in a few years, someone will do a research paper on "Management Systems in Small Boats as a pre-requisite study course for the European Certificate and Permit to Operate a Boat".

'Tis only logical we should head that way......;)



(Heads for Bed, and pulls duvet over pate.)
 
Babylon said:
Emergency kit includes lifejacket (not harness as such), MOB gear, liferaft, flares, EPIRB, PLB, fire-extinguishers, bolt-croppers, etc.

Safety kit includes harness (whether or not lifejacket integral), lifelines, jackstays, strong-points, NAVTEX, safe gas installation, carbon-monoxide detector, radar reflector, etc.

Does this make sense? What do others think?
Click to expand...
While not subscribing to the Searush school of thought on this issue, I can't help wondering how useful the distinction is.

As listed, what seems to define your distinction is frequency of active use - e.g. lifejacket inflated only occasionally, EPIRB usually never activated, whereas the harness and the NAVTEX may be regularly used.

But the distinction breaks down at the edges - jackstays, one could argue, are not "activated" until you slip and fall overboard. If clipping on to the jackstay is activating it, what about bringing the liferaft out and clipping it to the pulpit? If nothing else, a classification that puts some integral items of equipment into both categories (a lifejacket with integral harness) is not going to stand the test of time.

(This marks me out as a nerd, for sure, but even this is better than what SWMBO is watching on the telly.)
 
Who's god?

Searush said:
May your god preserve me from nerds like you two! FFS why do you feel the need to classify everything. Please go & count blades of grass or something equally useful & entertaining.
Click to expand...

Do you mean my god, his god, or your wish for or lack of a god - or just the fact that without reference to a god of some sort, you couldn't have phrased your blistering attack quite the way you did? (Come to think of it, is there not an inverse relationship between the decreasing belief in God and the proliferation of safety devices?)

Anyway, my inclination to think, sometimes to classify, comes from the fact that I resent being infantilised by watching television, so my late-evenings, after the mindless drudge of a hard day's work and then the fun and play of early-evening's childcare, are free to wonder and to question - and maybe upset the good burghers of ybw world - after which I count the bristles on my toothbrush and go to bed with a large technical tome.
 
I had a large portion of process management before resigning my major income generating career. You were suffering a backlash from that. My intention was to entertain rather than insult, but I see I may have overstepped the mark - but I did enjoy writing it!:D

"Your god" as in "May your god go with you" - remember that? Quite liberal at the time for a Catholic comedian. I am an atheist & have no gods, so "My God" would not have been appropriate. But I feel that the selective use of simple profanities adds much to a stinging comment. You are free to think otherwise.

I am a humanist, I guess, although some examples of our species do leave me doubting my faith at times. My use of bought safety devices is limited. I like to use my eyes, brain & hands as my main life savers. However, I will add artificial aids if I fear that the usual precutions may be inadequate.

May the wind blow for you, rather than against you.
 
Babylon said:
Does this make sense? What do others think?
Click to expand...

Not really. You're playing with words to some degree - it's almost a theological argument.

The problem with people's attitude towards "safety" ( apart from the current H&S stain) is that decisions are taken when on dry land or in happy circumstances at sea. It's easy to persuade yourself that some safety kit is overkill when you dont need it.

I've only once got myself into difficulties and that was entirely my own fault and in the bay of Biscay. But one thing I can assure you is that your attitude changes at the time. You realise exactly what it means to be "on your own". You wouldn't then think about "commercial pressures" which in any case is another way of saying "I'd rather spend the money on something else".

Now back on dry land I forget that lesson and think more about spending money on a new sail than an epirb. Human nature I suppose.
 
thinking out loud here........

don't want anything onboard that ain't earning it's keep. (With the possible exception of a flares kit & liferaft - we may have them but its usually with the mindset that we're not going to need them?). Everything else should be used at least once every 6 months I reckon - if not, chuck it in the bin - so someone else may get use out of it!

Accidents happen - if you're the safety orientated type & have one, youre usually prepared & chances are you'll recover. If you're not the safety minded type - chances are you'll muddle thru - I'm sometimes amazed at how often they do.

still no subsitute for common sense in this world, unless of course you happen to be one of those lucky lucky ..............

On a related matter - how many people here hold onto their expired flares? ;)
 
In his excellent 1972 book "Seamanship in Small Open Boats", Ken Duxbury mentions 'utility' and 'catastrophe' equipment. So this categorisation isn't a new thing!

In my mind I use the distinction to help justify expenses... you don't throw away your flares after four years and think they were a waste of money, for example.
 
Surely the point of calling it emergency equipment is to point out the error of thinking that putting more and more bright yellow kit on the boat makes you safer.
 
safety

Had to get in on this one as it's (one of) my hobby horses!

I do not think of safety equipment and emergency equipment as two distinct categories; to me it is all "safety equipment" , some or all of which may be used in an emergency.

If you read MGN280, SOLAS, Boat Safety Handbook, etc., the references are generally to safety equipment, although some items are named specifically as an emergency item, 'emergency tiller', for example.

Enjoy the thread.

Cheers,

Michael.
 
Having argued against it, I now see there may be a useful point here: since emergency equipment is rarely, if ever, used, this is the equipment we need to get out and check at the start of every cruise and at least once a week thereafter.

If it's too much of a sweat to get that liferaft out of it's locker, maybe its storage space needs a rethink. If, as you explain to new crew that it's a good idea to wear leather gloves when setting off flares, and they ask, "Where are the leather gloves?" then the exercise has been useful. If, when showing them how to activate the EPIRB, you cannot remember when you last tested it, then you are clearly not testing your emergency equipment often enough to make best use of it in the hour of need.
 
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