The courtesy of Solent MoBo skippers

[Otter]

Yesterday we had a long trip from Northney to Studland, the weather wasn't fun and it was rather bouncy, our two young children sail with us so we are sensitive to issues. During the long part of the passage along the north side of the IOW we came across at least a dozen big MoBo's out for a blast and without exception they displayed genuine courtesy and skilful boat handling.

They all seemed to follow the same routine, full speed until about 300m away - difficult to judge distance on a wobbly sailboat - then a very obvious change of course so that their intentions were clear and a noticeable drop in speed, then once past us they increased speed and resumed their previous course. It's a bit unnerving on a slow motorsailer when a big motorboat is headed toward you at speed, any course change I make will only move me through the water at 6 knots at best so in these situations I leave it to the 25knot motorboat - I hope I'm right in that? Anyway, we've met a hell of a lot of rude and arrogant sailors in our time but only cursed a few MoBo's for their wake. Yesterday we were grateful in the conditions for the skill they displayed.

 

[rafiki_]

Thank you Colvic. We too are very cognisant of sail boats, and I always check my course and wake.

 

[Otter]

Thanks, was I right to hold my course and speed and let the much faster oncoming boat make the call?

 

[Elessar]

Yesterday we had a long trip from Northney to Studland, the weather wasn't fun and it was rather bouncy, our two young children sail with us so we are sensitive to issues. During the long part of the passage along the north side of the IOW we came across at least a dozen big MoBo's out for a blast and without exception they displayed genuine courtesy and skilful boat handling.

They all seemed to follow the same routine, full speed until about 300m away - difficult to judge distance on a wobbly sailboat - then a very obvious change of course so that their intentions were clear and a noticeable drop in speed, then once past us they increased speed and resumed their previous course. It's a bit unnerving on a slow motorsailer when a big motorboat is headed toward you at speed, any course change I make will only move me through the water at 6 knots at best so in these situations I leave it to the 25knot motorboat - I hope I'm right in that? Anyway, we've met a hell of a lot of rude and arrogant sailors in our time but only cursed a few MoBo's for their wake. Yesterday we were grateful in the conditions for the skill they displayed.

It's bad apple syndrome. I curse at plenty from my mobo! Glad to see you break down the stupid barrier between fellow boaters Colvic. It only seems to really exist in the Solent ....,

 

[sarabande]

It's comforting to hear your story.

Some figures..

Say mobo speed of 30 kts, and ColvicMS of 5.

The mobo covers those 300m in 20 seconds, and during that time your 5kt motor sailor can move 50m to one side or the other - that's four of your boat lengths. Which distance is covered by the mobo in 3 seconds. That's fine if both parties are alert and savvy about manoeuvering. The main advantage of a mobo is the height of eye of the driver, perhaps 5m ASL.


There was a lot of discussion in the RIN about effective domains in the 1970. That's the area (a sort of heart shape) that is available to a vessel taking avoiding action from service speed. For your MS its quite small; for a speedy mobo it can be quite a lot larger, even for a crash stop. When the two overlap, at any given moment a danger of collision exists; keep the two domains separate and you are fine.

The visual angle of the two boats is quite different. For a 20ft wide mobo at 300m, it is just over 1 degree wide from the MS. Your sailing boat at 12ft wide appears 0.7 of a degree wide to the mobo, though you do have a mast, which helps.

If you hold your arm out at full length, the width of your little finger is 1 degree.

 

[petem]

Thanks, was I right to hold my course and speed and let the much faster oncoming boat make the call?

No, you should follow the Collision Regs! That's what they are there for.

 

[dpb]

We sometimes go fishing over Pool Patch in Poole Bay.
Thing is it is on the straight line course from the Solent to Poole.
Couple of weeks ago three or four groups of mobos 30ft to 60ft passed by Poole bound.
All passed within 100m, some much closer.
None slowed, Non deviated.
We were chucked all over the place.
Its a regular occurance out there, we are used to it, we keep a look out when out there so we are prepared and dont let it spoil our day.
But it makes you get why the blow boaters get so wound up sometimes.

 

[nicho]

Here we go, how many pages this time����?

 

[C08]

I suspect that in less than good weather only the more competent MOBOers were out and it probably follows that more experienced sailors are overall more considerate and understanding wash & wake problems for small sailboats.

 

[Otter]

No, you should follow the Collision Regs! That's what they are there for.

Yep I understand them, but if you have a 25knot MOBO on your starboard bow, what is the best way of avoiding a collision? I could alter course to starboard and with a sailboat ahead I would, I want to be predictable and obvious and I've got time on my side. If the MOBO is on the port bow then a change to starboard by me is sensible but has almost no effect relative to the MOBO because of the speed it is doing. I do change my course but I'm much more reliant on them than she/he is on me. Just the difference between theory and real life experience, last Saturday I had no reason to doubt the common sense and good seamanship of the MOBO skippers.

 

[Sandyman]

I suspect that in less than good weather only the more competent MOBOers were out and it probably follows that more experienced sailors are overall more considerate and understanding wash & wake problems for small sailboats.

My exact thoughts.

 

[Elessar]

- - - - - - - -8< - - - - - -
problems for small sailboats.

Mobos are more effected as they don't have a keel you know..........

 

[prv]

Yep I understand them, but if you have a 25knot MOBO on your starboard bow, what is the best way of avoiding a collision?

If he's ahead of you and crossing right-to-left at five times your speed, surely there isn't a collision situation existing in the first place? So best way to "avoid" a collision is to do nothing.

If the MOBO is on the port bow then a change to starboard by me is sensible

Less sensible if he's just altered to go behind you, since now you're no longer moving right-to-left (your previous "forwards") at the speed he anticipated. Admittedly given the speeds and manoeuvrability involved in this particular case it's not a huge problem - he probably wouldn't go behind you anyway and if he was then it's just a slight extra jink of the wheel. But in general it's the reason the rules require you not to do that once a collision situation has developed.

Just the difference between theory and real life experience

True. I must admit that in a busy area like the mouth of the Hamble at weekends, with multiple crossing situations going on at once, I tend to let the fast boats do the avoiding rather than also confuse the slow-speed situation with maneouvres that won't do much anyway. Still, if I'm head-on to a mobo and under power, I always try to show them a bit of my port bow if only so as not to be that knob who insists that "Steam gives way to sail!" even when "sail" is actually a 40hp Volvo.

Pete

 

[Whitelighter]

No, you should follow the Collision Regs! That's what they are there for.

Who he did. As the vessel being overtaken he should hold his course so it's predictable. The vessel overtaking has the responsibility in the first instance to give way. Of course thing change if the OT vessel isn't going to do that

 

[SnaxMuppet]

Yesterday we had a long trip from Northney to Studland, the weather wasn't fun and it was rather bouncy, our two young children sail with us so we are sensitive to issues. During the long part of the passage along the north side of the IOW we came across at least a dozen big MoBo's out for a blast and without exception they displayed genuine courtesy and skilful boat handling.

They all seemed to follow the same routine, full speed until about 300m away - difficult to judge distance on a wobbly sailboat - then a very obvious change of course so that their intentions were clear and a noticeable drop in speed, then once past us they increased speed and resumed their previous course. It's a bit unnerving on a slow motorsailer when a big motorboat is headed toward you at speed, any course change I make will only move me through the water at 6 knots at best so in these situations I leave it to the 25knot motorboat - I hope I'm right in that? Anyway, we've met a hell of a lot of rude and arrogant sailors in our time but only cursed a few MoBo's for their wake. Yesterday we were grateful in the conditions for the skill they displayed.

Were you sailing or motoring?

If you were sailing then of course the mobos would have to give way regardless and you should just hold your course.

In all circumstances the only way the colregs work to avoid collisions is by us all following them. If we start to break the rules then no one knows what we might do and it becomes much more unpredictable. best to always stick to the colregs unless a collision looks possible then do whatever it takes to avoid it!

 

[jac]

Its a regular occurance out there, we are used to it, we keep a look out when out there so we are prepared and dont let it spoil our day.
But it makes you get why the blow boaters get so wound up sometimes.

Two main reasons for getting wound up.

1) it is scary. When you have even a fairly small fast moving boat on what appears to be a collision course and who then veers off at the last minute their is nothing that you can do at say 4 knots. I had two small open speedboats - maybe 16 feet long, pass between us and another yacht last September. We were about 40 feet apart tops and both speedboats went through that gap flat out with little more than the prop in the water. Skillful yes but it only takes a small misjudgement to have had a head on. In that situation there is no real action a yacht can take as it's over so quickly

2) Wash can be unexpected. It's never going to harm a yacht of course but the comparison with boats being out in a F6 and coming across much bigger waves misses the point. The issue comes when a yacht is attempting to sail in light wind.
- She will have no real speed so can't take avoiding action ( see 1) above.
- She will also not be rigged for bad weather so drinks etc may be just left somewhere and then fall, people won't be clipped on etc.
- She will be stopped by the wash as the sails will lose their aerofoil shape as insufficient wind to hold them in place against the rolling of the boat. The yacht then loses power just as the waves hit so she stops. If you're really lucky, you just get settled, boat no longer rolling, speed back up to maybe 2 knots and it happens again. After 4 or 5 tries the last Mobo owner will probably catch it in the neck for the sins pf the others!!

That said - some people are just knobs and will complain for the sake of it

 

[nicho]

In our sailing years, I really cannot remember any mobo causing us real discomfort in the Solent, even on a busy weekend. I am sorry to say that some yachtsmen are so intolerant of ANY mobo, they will rant and rave even if it passes 1/2 mile away, their brains are just wired up that way. It reminds me of the Thames, where rowers, who think they own the river, will scream abuse, even if the mobo has stopped! It's hardwired into their psyche - simply intolerent idiots, nothing less.

 

[Prima]

Sailors are the equivalent of cyclists on the road. A dammed nuisance to us power freaks

Only joking, I sail and cycle myself for my sins. Common sense does seem to be lacking in a lot of people though...

 

[TheOrs]

If I am in displacement I expect yachts with their engine running to give way as necessary.

If I am planing I treat any displacement boat as a stationary object; make an obvious change of course to alert them to my intentions and go around them. If there is a potential wake issue I tend to make a bigger loop in preference to dropping off the plane.