The bodge

[alan_d]

For you, perhaps, a bodger is a man who makes furniture from trees

but for most people its a bloke who cobbles stuff together

Isn't that a shoemaker?

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Not sure about that - it's meaning has certainly changed since middle English, when it meant 'tampered with'. Nowadays it's a multi-meaning word. Applied, for example, to people, arguments, machinery, fashion or movies its meaning shifts each time. Also perceptions of its meaning differ. For some 'sophisticated' is good. For others it means over-complicated - not good. You might prefer to marry a sophisticated partner, but sleep with an unsophisticated one, for example. And where do you draw the line between sophisticated and over-sophisticated?

Is it you or me (or both) that is employing sophistry here?

(but a bodger is still a man turning green timber in the woods!)

So they are botching the word sophisticated.
C_W

 

[grumpy_o_g]

...now to our children or grandchildren it has a new meaning entirely...

Wot's it mean now then?

 

[prv]

now to our children or grandchildren it has a new meaning entirely

Wot's it mean now then?

Not that I'm quite in that generation any more, but I think Dylan's getting at the use of the word "gay" in a generally pejorative sense that's not particularly related to homosexuality. As in, "that film was really gay". Doesn't mean it was bright and cheerful, but doesn't necessarily mean it's effeminate or camp either. Just that the speaker didn't like it.

I guess it comes via homophobia, but homophobia's actually pretty uncool these days.

Pete

 

[electrosys]

I've always understood the original meaning of 'sophisticated' was "complex with a view to deception", as in the art of sophistry - i.e. a term having 'bad' baggage attached.

Then it muted into "being complex" but with good baggage attached.

And finally into "elegant", implying being highly desirable. And that's a complete 180 degree turnaround.

Same with 'bodgers' - once meaning highly skilled workmen, now someone who is inept.

There's a small builder's firm near here called "Bodgette and Crookham" - thought you'd like that !

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Fascinating stuff on the meaning of the word sophisticate. I looked it up on line and post the current and archaic definitions here. How words change; fascinating, a good thread this.

sophisticate
verb |səˈfɪstɪkeɪt| [ trans. ]
cause (a person or their thoughts, attitudes, and expectations) to become less simple or straightforward through education or experience : readers who have been sophisticated by modern literary practice.
• develop (something such as a piece of equipment or a technique) into a more complex form : functions that other software applications have sophisticated.
• [ intrans. ] archaic talk or reason in an impressively complex and educated manner.
• archaic mislead or corrupt (a person, an argument, the mind, etc.) by sophistry : books of casuistry, which sophisticate the understanding and defile the heart.
adjective |səˈfistəˌkāt; -kit| |səˈfɪstəˈkeɪt| |səˈfɪstəkət| |səˈfɪstɪkət| archaic
sophisticated.
noun |səˈfistəˌkāt; -kit| |səˈfɪstəˈkeɪt| |səˈfɪstəkət| |səˈfɪstɪkət|
a person with much worldly experience and knowledge of fashion and culture : he is still the butt of jokes made by New York sophisticates.
DERIVATIVES
sophistication |səˌfistiˈkā sh ən| |səˈfɪstəˈkeɪʃən| noun
ORIGIN late Middle English (as an adjective in the sense [adulterated,] and as a verb in the sense [mix with a foreign substance] ): from medieval Latin sophisticatus ‘tampered with,’ past participle of the verb sophisticare, from sophisticus ‘sophistic.’ The shift of sense probably occurred first in the adjective unsophisticated, from [uncorrupted] via [innocent] to [inexperienced, uncultured.] The noun dates from the early 20th cent.
sophisticated |səˈfistiˌkātid| |səˈfɪstəˈkeɪd1d| |səˈfɪstɪkeɪtɪd|
adjective
(of a machine, system, or technique) developed to a high degree of complexity : highly sophisticated computer systems.
• (of a person or their thoughts, reactions, and understanding) aware of and able to interpret complex issues; subtle : discussion and reflection are necessary for a sophisticated response to a text.
• having, revealing, or proceeding from a great deal of worldly experience and knowledge of fashion and culture : a chic, sophisticated woman | a young man with sophisticated tastes.
See note at urbane .
• appealing to people with such knowledge of experience : a sophisticated restaurant.
DERIVATIVES
sophisticatedly |səˈfɪstəˈkeɪd1dli| adverb

 

[Hadenough]

try sophisticated for instance



Dylan

I did try once but it didn't work!