colhel
Well-Known Member
Prick
The best family coastal cruiser
- Thread starter stu9000
- Start date
Prick
Big-Bang1
Well-Known Member
Seajet
...
Maybe, but an accurate one !
A friend had a Leisure 23, when we met him in Emsworth Channel I said " how's it going, Dave ? " as a greeting.
My crew, also an experienced sailor whispered in my ear, " sideways ! "
A friend had a Leisure 23, when we met him in Emsworth Channel I said " how's it going, Dave ? " as a greeting.
My crew, also an experienced sailor whispered in my ear, " sideways ! "
colhel
Well-Known Member
So as usual you berate others choice of boat on nothing more than heresay and something a friend whispered.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
It does get rather tiresome
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
And sometimes after looking at a brochure or ad.
mrming
Well-Known Member
The Leisure 23 SL looks great for a family I think. You can't have everything if you want to fit a couple and three kids into a small boat. How bad can a fin keel one be? I bet with some nice sails and a bit of tuning it would be perfectly adequate.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Thier sailing performance is perfectly adequate for family cruising, however those wanting a more sporty sail - there is a 'GTI' version in Limehouse Basin at the moment with a larger sugar scoop and a twin spreader rig!
Seajet
...
I base my estimations on my personal observations, have seen a fair few of the things in my club & around, I just thought my chums' ' sideways ' remark was spot on !
I suppose the L23 would be OK for a family but it strikes me as unlikely to sail out of trouble, ie clawing off a lee shore.
Bru
Well-Known Member
How bad, in fact, can a bilge keel one be? The answer is not that bad at all with decent sails, a bit of tuning and sailed properly
OK, straight up I've heard it direct from the horses mouth, as it were, that your average Snappy 23 is pretty damned hopeless to windward but then they've got a couple of pathetic slabs for keels. Plenty of other small twin keelers that actually have quite a respectable performance. Even the Snappy has it virtues - accepting that it ain't the greatest performer on the water might be the price you consider worth paying for full standing headroom and comfortable caravan style accommodation in a 23 footer
And in terms of the OP's quest, if he is to convince his good lady and his three kids that life afloat is a barrel of laughs, they need to be comfortable and feel safe on board - they aren't going to be the least bit interested, to begin with at least, whether or not they can sail at 40 degrees off the wind close hauled or nearer 50 and they'll be perfectly happy with the concept of hitting the engine and making a beeline for the marina or anchorage where they can relax and have fun a couple of hours sooner than if they flogged their way up to windward
I've spent the last three years listening to people say "oh, bilge keel is it? Bet that goes sideways then". Well not so's you'd notice actually 'cos a> we don't over-press and b> we don't pinch up too tight. Either of those mistakes is what promotes excessive leeway in a twin keeler so don't make 'em! OK, so the fin keel fella will get there half an hour quicker than us, so what? We can dry out anywhere upright, don't have to mess about with cradles or lifting keel mechanisms and running aground is a minor nuisance not a major emergency!
I will say that the above applies to proper twin keelers with two (preferably encapsulated rather than bolt on) angled and toed in foils rather than a couple of vertical slabs of glass fibre or two steel plates bolted to the bilges
I've hated sailing a twin keeler so much for the last three years that I've just bought another bigger one!
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Now there you go again!
Anyone got stats for how many L23s have been wrecked on lee shores while the family crew did their damnedest to make offing?
Seajet
...
There are twin keelers and there are twin keelers; most vagueley modern ones are fine, in fact I think the twin keel Fulmar will be regarded a classic soon and indeed the Centaur goes a lot better than it's reputation.
The Leisure 17 twin keeler is a classic too, sadly they fell down with larger amounts of grp.
The Leisure 17 twin keeler is a classic too, sadly they fell down with larger amounts of grp.
Seajet
...
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
I based my observations on having sailed on one for just over 10 years rather than my chums comments
As this whole thread is about what boat would be suitable for a family it would appear we are now in agreement.
PS - Out of interest, are you club members aware that you spend your time denouncing their boats on Internet forums?
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PeteCooper
Well-Known Member
So based on one observation a very popular class is damned? As an experienced sailor you must realise that here are many reasons why a boat will go sideways - a popular one being too much sail for the conditions, the boat leans too far and makes a lot of leeway.Maybe, but an accurate one !
A friend had a Leisure 23, when we met him in Emsworth Channel I said " how's it going, Dave ? " as a greeting.
My crew, also an experienced sailor whispered in my ear, " sideways ! "
There are an awful lot of Leisures about(in varying sizes) which suggests to me that they are a decent boat, and suffer from longevity.
Seajet
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If you read what I said it was not one observation...
I would rate the L23 as a moderate leap ahead of Snapdragons though.
Prove me wrong !
I would rate the L23 as a moderate leap ahead of Snapdragons though.
Prove me wrong !
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
They are. I have crossed the channel in one. Cosy little boat, Tardis interior. Get an inboard one though.
stu9000
Well-Known Member
not a required contriution
Absolutely no need for that. You're welcome to your view but don't hijack my thread with playground name calling.
Incidentally I have owned a snapdragon 23. Liked it, but she didn't have enough ballast, so would lean over and go sideways.
Absolutely no need for that. You're welcome to your view but don't hijack my thread with playground name calling.
Incidentally I have owned a snapdragon 23. Liked it, but she didn't have enough ballast, so would lean over and go sideways.
stu9000
Well-Known Member
There have been times I wished I had a nice big fin keel, usually when I'm trying to get round a headland before the tide changes. But, with young kids, I'm going to be creek crawling, running up the beach, going to pubs and so on. The are going to want to get off. I like this kind of sailing too. I also like the price of a half tide mooring. My grandparents had a macwester 35 bilge keeler which was never a sparking performer but I loved her. I could sail the pants off many other boats in my caprice 19. Conversely the fin keel hunter 30 my Dad had for a while felt tender. To be fair I didn't get my hands on her enough to know her ways. As a club racer with six beefy mates on the rail she is probably great, but that isn't my style.
mrming
Well-Known Member
I can't see how the answer can be anything other than Leisure 23 (bilge keel & preferably SL) or Hirondelle. What else offers that kind of accommodation, at that size, and can take the ground according to the OP's wishes?
